This whole thing bothers me, because I'm a compatibilist in the free will vs. determinism debate. Basically, yeah, everything's determined by physics, but you are a physical machine. That machine makes choices, so you make choices. There's no such thing as a choice that defies predetermination, but there's also no such thing as predetermination that prevents you from making your choice.
Yes we are making the choice even though we couldnt have made another, because choice by definition is contained within predeterminism- what i mean is, what even is free choice, free will? You must have parameters to have a will. Really the main idea for me is what our "lack" of choice means for what we should do, which is nothing at all. We have choice in the oiriginal sense, its just that it isnt magical like we assumed all along.
the idea of "you" separate from the machine is simply false. You are the machine. If the machine chooses, you choose. You take who you are, and combine it with your environment, and you get your choice. There's nothing invalidating about it.
Im saying one should not dislike it at all, first of all, and that "free will" in the pure sense is nonsensical. So the only thing left is that our choices are actual choices at the same time that they are not, ie compatibilism. Why exactly should i be distressed that i would always want chocolate ice cream right now instead of vanilla? There's no reason. It should be embraced, and not in a coping sort of way. I dont see the reason for a need to cope.
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bradlox (Long Spike)
Wut ? We are just meat machines without free will ? If so then Where do new ideas come from ?
consciousness is bound to physical realities yet a conversation about the quantum physics without consciousness being involved is impossible.
We might be more than just our bodies.
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sato (Old Spike)
"Basically, yeah, everything's determined by physics, but you are a physical machine."
physics isn't determininstic, we can't even say for certain where matter will be at any given time.
and we are a physical machine as evidenced by what?
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sato (Old Spike)
their frustration is understandable. it was mainlanders who took their democracy from them in the first place, and it's mainlanders who are now trying to bring even more control over them and removing even more of the HK people's say.
also dan your apparent positions on china are at odds with the lifestyle in a free democracy that you have chosen. do you perhaps have family back home in china you need to protect?
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
it was mainlanders who took their democracy from them in the first place
HK is more democratic today than it ever was under the Brits and nobody's taking it from them. Where do you find such crazy disinfo, sato?
Do you perhaps have a Chinese ex-wife who took you for everything & spreading half-baked China Bad theories is your way of getting back at her?
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
Even The Economist has given up selling HK terries as "the good guys"
Comments
(Long Spike)
This whole thing bothers me, because I'm a compatibilist in the free will vs. determinism debate. Basically, yeah, everything's determined by physics, but you are a physical machine. That machine makes choices, so you make choices. There's no such thing as a choice that defies predetermination, but there's also no such thing as predetermination that prevents you from making your choice.
Yes we are making the choice even though we couldnt have made another, because choice by definition is contained within predeterminism- what i mean is, what even is free choice, free will? You must have parameters to have a will. Really the main idea for me is what our "lack" of choice means for what we should do, which is nothing at all. We have choice in the oiriginal sense, its just that it isnt magical like we assumed all along.
the idea of "you" separate from the machine is simply false. You are the machine. If the machine chooses, you choose. You take who you are, and combine it with your environment, and you get your choice. There's nothing invalidating about it.
Im saying one should not dislike it at all, first of all, and that "free will" in the pure sense is nonsensical. So the only thing left is that our choices are actual choices at the same time that they are not, ie compatibilism. Why exactly should i be distressed that i would always want chocolate ice cream right now instead of vanilla? There's no reason. It should be embraced, and not in a coping sort of way. I dont see the reason for a need to cope.
(Long Spike)
Wut ? We are just meat machines without free will ? If so then Where do new ideas come from ?
consciousness is bound to physical realities yet a conversation about the quantum physics without consciousness being involved is impossible.
We might be more than just our bodies.
(Old Spike)
"Basically, yeah, everything's determined by physics, but you are a physical machine."
physics isn't determininstic, we can't even say for certain where matter will be at any given time.
and we are a physical machine as evidenced by what?
(Old Spike)
their frustration is understandable. it was mainlanders who took their democracy from them in the first place, and it's mainlanders who are now trying to bring even more control over them and removing even more of the HK people's say.
also dan your apparent positions on china are at odds with the lifestyle in a free democracy that you have chosen. do you perhaps have family back home in china you need to protect?
(Old Spike)
it was mainlanders who took their democracy from them in the first place
HK is more democratic today than it ever was under the Brits and nobody's taking it from them. Where do you find such crazy disinfo, sato?
Do you perhaps have a Chinese ex-wife who took you for everything & spreading half-baked China Bad theories is your way of getting back at her?
(Old Spike)
Even The Economist has given up selling HK terries as "the good guys"