Well he is trying to be free. Some challenges at the moment.
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danman (Site Administrator)
he won an overwhelming election victory based on anti-corruption & peace with Russia
how would you say it's going?
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
When someone invades your country, I'd say it's not going well with freedom.
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danman (Site Administrator)
He was elected in 2019. How did he do from then until Feb 2022, in your opinion?
Did he fulfil his promises to root out corruption & have peaceful relations with Russia?
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
I don't know, haven't followed what the guy has been up to.
All I know Russia attacked them and it's creating some challenges in this freedom thing. A lot of death a millions refugees.
In your oppinion, did Ukraine deserve to be invaded?
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danman (Site Administrator)
> he is trying to be free. Some challenges at the moment
> haven't followed what the guy has been up to
interesting
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
Yeah thats all I really know about him. Trying to be free and it's a challenge. But everyones knows this.
Did Ukraine deserve to be invaded?
Pick one
Yes
No
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danman (Site Administrator)
how would you know what he's trying to do if you've only paid attention to some surface level stuff since Ukraine started getting blanket western propaganda coverage a few months ago
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
All I know is Russia invaded and they are fighting back. If they lose they will have to bend to a foreign nations will. Do you think Russia should be able to dictate what other nations do?
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danman (Site Administrator)
the should be able to game eh?
do you think Ukriane should be ableto carry on torturing, killing & generally discriminating against Russian speakers?
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
No.
How about your answer?
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danman (Site Administrator)
Given that Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe, has serious political issues including fascist extremism that's become embedded in the establishment & is unstable with a simmering civil war going on for the past 8 years since overthrowing their elected government, do you think they should be able to acquire nuclear weapons, as their president threatened to do in February?
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
No.
How about your answer?
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danman (Site Administrator)
Do you think Ukraine should be able to sign ceasefire accords with France, Germany & Russia as guarantors, promising to stop attacking the mostly Russian-speaking enclave that was seeking autonomy but then not implement the accords for over 7 years?
(they're still bombing villages in Donbas btw)
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
Genereally I'm all for anything that lessens the death and destruction. Can't say about the autonomy, if it's inside Ukraines borders, then it's their business.
How about your answer?
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danman (Site Administrator)
Given that NATO is a military-political group hostile to Russia & extremely aggressive (formally involved in 4 wars of aggression in 25 years resulting in 4 destroyed countries, member states involved in many more wars of aggression & hostile covert action around the world in the same period including the destruction of Russian ally Syria & sponsoring armed rebellion inside Russia, led by the US who is beholden to no rules at all, has proven it can't be trusted by Russia & is the most aggressive empire of the past century) ... and given Ukraine's proximity to Russia, do you think NATO should be able to bring Ukraine into their special club?
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
"You've asked this same question a number of different ways & it's always just a deflection from the topic of the thread, an attempt to pin the entire situation on Russia."
It's a question that is at the heart of the matter, how can that be a deflection?
Remeber when I said that its hard having a conversation with you because even basic logic dosen't apply.
This is what I mean.
Can we atleast agree that it was Russias decision to attack Ukraine?
Edit: also the constant editing doesn't help.
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danman (Site Administrator)
@bd, apologies for the editing, it sometimes takes a few mins to get my response right.
Yeah it was Russias decision to attack Ukraine.
Can you address the updated comment I made about joining NATO?
Way I see it this is a core issue. It's a proxy war. If you can't agree with that then we have to discuss that part. Like I said earlier (I think) history didn't start on Feb 24, nor did the issues between US/NATO/CIA/Ukraine & Russia.
> do you think NATO should be able to bring Ukraine into their special club?
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
"do you think NATO should be able to bring Ukraine into their special club?"
No, don't think it's a good idea.
And as far as I know, it was never even considered seriously. Ukraine is too corrupt and too unstable, and I suspect Russia wants to keep it that way by any means possible. Theres also some member states that have always opposed it.
But again, Russia's attack just creates more insentive to join. Finland and Sweden next, if they can get into an agreement with Turkey.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
"since overthrowing their elected government"
Are you suggesting the elections were rigged? Do you have any proof of that? Is this a valid reason to invade?
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danman (Site Administrator)
@dc, the elected govt was overthrown in 2014 & it's been a US client state since then. That alone is not a valid reason to invade. Nobody said it was. It's a concern for Russia though. Does Russia get to have concerns?
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
They do, however, they don't get to invade due to that, so again:
Was the govt in Ukraine not democratically elected?
What are valid reasons for invading the country?
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Timmy Tosser (dumb cunt)
Mate, don't go expecting any forme of logical response or cogent argument from our village idiot. Sure you may get some obscure citations and/or quotes and interviews from his favorite paedophile or relationship coach, but nothing worth wasting your time replying to...
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danman (Site Administrator)
@dc
> Was the govt in Ukraine not democratically elected?
the last one was but things changed since 2014 when their elected govt was overthrown. That's when the civil war began & Russians inside Ukraine started being killed, tortured & generally discriminated against. It's gone downhill from there & Russia's concerns have been ignored, as have a lot of the Russian speakers in Ukraine, particularly in the Donbas but elsewhere too. Russia tried for 8+ years to settle things via negotiations & for the past year or 2 were practically begging France & Germany (Minsk II guarantors) & US to convince Kyiv to implement the agreement.
> What are valid reasons for invading the country?
Validity is subjective. If you haven't paid attention to Russia's public statements or the geopolitical situation over the years I can't really be expected to explain it to you on here, nor would I do a very good job. I've listed a number of things Ukraine has done which bd agrees were unacceptable. He's not gotten back to me on whether Ukraine should be able to join NATO or not. You can have a crack at it in his absence if you like.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Nice job avoiding answers
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danman (Site Administrator)
dunno why you inject yourself into a convo when you have nothing to say
@backdraft
> do you think NATO should be able to bring Ukraine into their special club?
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Don't know who you are referring to, danjizz, but the ball remains in your court here, you haven't answered the questions, if you had others probably would have something to say.
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danman (Site Administrator)
@dc I was talking to you and I did answer your questions, moron.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
no you didn't as always when asked a simple querstion that puts yoiu on the spot on the topic you try to weasel yourself out, than call anybody who calls you out on it a moron or worse.
Then you complain about people ridiculing you, Are you a skeptoid sock?
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Timmy Tosser (dumb cunt)
No, no, please go on and explain it to us all in detail. Of course we know you won't do a very good job. Go on, give it a crack. And don't forget to mention the Minsk accords. It's ok if you get "stuff wrong". Or would you just prefer to reply with your usual eloquent statements like "cope" or "tard"?
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danman (Site Administrator)
you clowns are still replying?
lol
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Coming back to the avoided question:
"In your oppinion, did Ukraine deserve to be invaded?"
I want to add: If so, why?
add in Reinhard Gehlen & you have a direct bridge from Nazi Germany's Ukrainian collaborators & agent networks to CIA collaborators & agent networks. Gehlen was the Eastern Europe intelligence boss for Nazi Germany who defected to the OSS/CIA to run their Eastern Europe stuff.
Project Aerodynamic was just one of a string of projects they ran in a campaign that's still going to this day.
Comments
(Site Moderator)
Well he is trying to be free. Some challenges at the moment.
(Site Administrator)
he won an overwhelming election victory based on anti-corruption & peace with Russia
how would you say it's going?
(Site Moderator)
When someone invades your country, I'd say it's not going well with freedom.
(Site Administrator)
He was elected in 2019. How did he do from then until Feb 2022, in your opinion?
Did he fulfil his promises to root out corruption & have peaceful relations with Russia?
(Site Moderator)
I don't know, haven't followed what the guy has been up to.
All I know Russia attacked them and it's creating some challenges in this freedom thing. A lot of death a millions refugees.
In your oppinion, did Ukraine deserve to be invaded?
(Site Administrator)
> he is trying to be free. Some challenges at the moment
> haven't followed what the guy has been up to
interesting
(Site Moderator)
Yeah thats all I really know about him. Trying to be free and it's a challenge. But everyones knows this.
Did Ukraine deserve to be invaded?
Pick one
Yes
No
(Site Administrator)
how would you know what he's trying to do if you've only paid attention to some surface level stuff since Ukraine started getting blanket western propaganda coverage a few months ago
(Site Moderator)
All I know is Russia invaded and they are fighting back. If they lose they will have to bend to a foreign nations will. Do you think Russia should be able to dictate what other nations do?
(Site Administrator)
the should be able to game eh?
do you think Ukriane should be able to carry on torturing, killing & generally discriminating against Russian speakers?
(Site Moderator)
No.
How about your answer?
(Site Administrator)
Given that Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe, has serious political issues including fascist extremism that's become embedded in the establishment & is unstable with a simmering civil war going on for the past 8 years since overthrowing their elected government, do you think they should be able to acquire nuclear weapons, as their president threatened to do in February?
(Site Moderator)
No.
How about your answer?
(Site Administrator)
Do you think Ukraine should be able to sign ceasefire accords with France, Germany & Russia as guarantors, promising to stop attacking the mostly Russian-speaking enclave that was seeking autonomy but then not implement the accords for over 7 years?
(they're still bombing villages in Donbas btw)
(Site Moderator)
Genereally I'm all for anything that lessens the death and destruction. Can't say about the autonomy, if it's inside Ukraines borders, then it's their business.
How about your answer?
(Site Administrator)
Given that NATO is a military-political group hostile to Russia & extremely aggressive (formally involved in 4 wars of aggression in 25 years resulting in 4 destroyed countries, member states involved in many more wars of aggression & hostile covert action around the world in the same period including the destruction of Russian ally Syria & sponsoring armed rebellion inside Russia, led by the US who is beholden to no rules at all, has proven it can't be trusted by Russia & is the most aggressive empire of the past century) ... and given Ukraine's proximity to Russia, do you think NATO should be able to bring Ukraine into their special club?
(Site Moderator)
"You've asked this same question a number of different ways & it's always just a deflection from the topic of the thread, an attempt to pin the entire situation on Russia."
It's a question that is at the heart of the matter, how can that be a deflection?
Remeber when I said that its hard having a conversation with you because even basic logic dosen't apply.
This is what I mean.
Can we atleast agree that it was Russias decision to attack Ukraine?
Edit: also the constant editing doesn't help.
(Site Administrator)
@bd, apologies for the editing, it sometimes takes a few mins to get my response right.
Yeah it was Russias decision to attack Ukraine.
Can you address the updated comment I made about joining NATO?
Way I see it this is a core issue. It's a proxy war. If you can't agree with that then we have to discuss that part. Like I said earlier (I think) history didn't start on Feb 24, nor did the issues between US/NATO/CIA/Ukraine & Russia.
> do you think NATO should be able to bring Ukraine into their special club?
(Site Moderator)
"do you think NATO should be able to bring Ukraine into their special club?"
No, don't think it's a good idea.
And as far as I know, it was never even considered seriously. Ukraine is too corrupt and too unstable, and I suspect Russia wants to keep it that way by any means possible. Theres also some member states that have always opposed it.
But again, Russia's attack just creates more insentive to join. Finland and Sweden next, if they can get into an agreement with Turkey.
(Old Spike)
"since overthrowing their elected government"
Are you suggesting the elections were rigged? Do you have any proof of that? Is this a valid reason to invade?
(Site Administrator)
@dc, the elected govt was overthrown in 2014 & it's been a US client state since then. That alone is not a valid reason to invade. Nobody said it was. It's a concern for Russia though. Does Russia get to have concerns?
(Old Spike)
They do, however, they don't get to invade due to that, so again:
Was the govt in Ukraine not democratically elected?
What are valid reasons for invading the country?
(dumb cunt)
Mate, don't go expecting any forme of logical response or cogent argument from our village idiot. Sure you may get some obscure citations and/or quotes and interviews from his favorite paedophile or relationship coach, but nothing worth wasting your time replying to...
(Site Administrator)
@dc
> Was the govt in Ukraine not democratically elected?
the last one was but things changed since 2014 when their elected govt was overthrown. That's when the civil war began & Russians inside Ukraine started being killed, tortured & generally discriminated against. It's gone downhill from there & Russia's concerns have been ignored, as have a lot of the Russian speakers in Ukraine, particularly in the Donbas but elsewhere too. Russia tried for 8+ years to settle things via negotiations & for the past year or 2 were practically begging France & Germany (Minsk II guarantors) & US to convince Kyiv to implement the agreement.
> What are valid reasons for invading the country?
Validity is subjective. If you haven't paid attention to Russia's public statements or the geopolitical situation over the years I can't really be expected to explain it to you on here, nor would I do a very good job. I've listed a number of things Ukraine has done which bd agrees were unacceptable. He's not gotten back to me on whether Ukraine should be able to join NATO or not. You can have a crack at it in his absence if you like.
(Old Spike)
Nice job avoiding answers
(Site Administrator)
dunno why you inject yourself into a convo when you have nothing to say
@backdraft
> do you think NATO should be able to bring Ukraine into their special club?
(Old Spike)
Don't know who you are referring to, danjizz, but the ball remains in your court here, you haven't answered the questions, if you had others probably would have something to say.
(Site Administrator)
@dc I was talking to you and I did answer your questions, moron.
(Old Spike)
no you didn't as always when asked a simple querstion that puts yoiu on the spot on the topic you try to weasel yourself out, than call anybody who calls you out on it a moron or worse.
Then you complain about people ridiculing you, Are you a skeptoid sock?
(dumb cunt)
No, no, please go on and explain it to us all in detail. Of course we know you won't do a very good job. Go on, give it a crack. And don't forget to mention the Minsk accords. It's ok if you get "stuff wrong". Or would you just prefer to reply with your usual eloquent statements like "cope" or "tard"?
(Site Administrator)
you clowns are still replying?
lol
(Old Spike)
Coming back to the avoided question:
"In your oppinion, did Ukraine deserve to be invaded?"
I want to add: If so, why?
(Site Administrator)
https://www.redstreetjournal.com/p/cia1
Project Aerodynamic was just one of a string of projects they ran in a campaign that's still going to this day.
they renamed Avenue of Moscow in Kyiv to Stepan Bandera Avenue in 2016
Is Russia allowed to be paranoid about a CIA-backed Nazi-infested regime in Ukraine?