TBS, I watched your Tucker vid out if respect. I don't watch him by choice (usually). I like the point he raises about the hypocrisy of politicians whose bodyguards will most likely have modified high-capacity magazines for their weapons (wonder why..). But despite all the stuff he throws up here, literally generating noise around the issue, are we supposed to believe that the fact an American kid can buy a sub-machine gun for all intents and purposes on his 18th birthday isn't a factor?..at all?
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danman (Site Administrator)
even if you could figure out why it's happening there's zero you could do about it, especially if your premise is "gun control is off limits". It's probably caused by a range of reasons to do with socioeconomics & culture but the drivers of these things aren't going anywhere. If anything they're only gonna get worse in the forseeable future.
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theblackswordsman (Old Spike)
The root causes are separation of face to face connection. Deterioration of family and community values, deterioration of faith, mental health, addiction, purposelness and materialism.
So yes there are a ton of issues that need to be sorted out.
If you say well remove the guns then we can talk well... 1. You'll never get them back, 2. Without defences governments don't have to pretend to care anymore because revolts won't scare them as they can be put down with minimal losses. 3. Why would they care to fix the root problems if there is no stick to fear. If they achieve productivity from the population with or without happieness why would they bother to put forth the effort to keep people happy and free?
Wanna talk about disarmament still? Ok governments first. Completely.
Yes it will get worse. A large part of this wave for decades is manufactured to create public outcry for disarmament so enslavement can be complete. You're going to see hundreds if not thousands of shootings in the next few years. All of them to swell that outcry for safety and disarmament to unbearable levels. The answer is No. I'm sure you have learned by now that we cannot be moved or manipulated on that issue. No matter what. Most of us will die on our feet rather than live on our knees.
Let's say our current governments are benevolent just for fun and would never do that. Nothing stopping the next line up. Except an armed population.
Disarmament of the population is off limits forever. Whether we are looked at as villains or not, we arn't putting ourselves into a situation we can't get out of.
So far in the last two years things have gotten worse for people that trust government.
For those of that don't things have not except higher prices.
I'll even ask you guys for your opinion on something. Lets say populations are disarmed, and government goes turbo tyrant to the point of shooting helpless people in the streets openly for fun, or muscling services out of people in broad daylight. Or marching around killer robots that tell you what to do.
What are you going to do then? Who will come save you? How will you stand up to them then if you have no weapons?
Lets not dance with anything else and cut straight to those last three questions. Give me answers I can believe in that are a 100% guarantee that leaves nothing to chance.
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danman (Site Administrator)
I agree with those root causes but would also add foreign policy & the media that conditions people to accept it. Also narcissim which is a result of some of what you listed.
I disagree with your take on gun control. It's not an absolute thing. For instance this guy had to wait until 18 to buy those rifles. That's gun control. Why not make it 21 or 25 or have further conditions on which kind of guns are available to who. This doesn't address the root causes but could help.
Throwing money into mental health isn't going to work in modern US imo. It's too kleptocratic. You already have the highest medical costs in the world with about the lowest result in OECD. I like your societal approach better but the only realistic way to role out policy is via government & this kind of top-down collectivist approach also wouldn't work in modern US. There are only so many options available & enhancing gun control seems the most obvious short term solution.
What's funny to me is a lot of what you listed as root causes could come under a lack of collectivism, just not in terms of a way of political organisation. I'm pretty sure you've railed on collectivism before as if it's the spawn of satan.
I don't agree that public disarmament = enslavement. You don't even need weapons to revolt, you can take them from those who have them or bring them in on it. You can also organize in other ways to leverage your worth against the leaders. And I don't buy that a bunch of individuals owning firearms is preventing the overlords from taking the piss. In a serious revolution all bets are off, a key aim would be to cause factionalism within the state. Anything short of revolution or serious political organizing to hold leaders accountable is just blah blah & I don't see either happening. The state's always about 10 steps ahead.
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theblackswordsman (Old Spike)
Not everything is about money. It's about building bonds on a community and family level.
Money can't buy genuine relationships and genuine human connection with people that is greater than the sum of it's parts.
The difference between my beliefs and collectivism, is collectivism tends to coalesce into a hivemind. Much like liberal democracies and not dissilmilar to fascism, nazism, and stalinism.
I believe in working together based on individual choices and reasoning, from looking deep inside yourself and coming up with your own reasons why and how you want to help.
This tends to generate a much wider array of ideas and solutions rather than one or two dictated to the masses by the ruling class to the exclusion of all other ideas.
The problem with any form of gun control is the state is the worst group to look to as an authority to decide who is armed and who is not for any reason.
Authority is a lie. Everyone is created equal.
I'm not one to quote songs, but this encapsulates this rational fear quite brilliantly if I may.
"We believe - so we're misled
We assume - so we're played
We confide - so we're deceived
We trust - so we're betrayed"
While on your last paragraph there. Soon many domestic forces will be replaced with weaponized drones and combat robots. Won't really be able to take weapons from them if you don't have any to disable them yourself. Bigger firepower in more hands will become more neccessary than ever soon. It's going to take green tips and explosive to bring a lot of those boys down. I imagine their cyber security will be top notch so only a handful of people will have the skills to hack them.
Armed individuals? No. You're right about that. Very few individuals have the capability of retired Special forces. But organized militias are much better which is recognized (for now) in the states, and they are community not state.
That's why they keep washing the masses with domestic white supremacist terrorism boogy men stories and ominous threats, to try and dissolve the social glue to rally when needed, and deteroriate public trust in these groups. It's not just the groups themselves that are valueable, but a symbol to rally with. Some are better than others, but many of them have the skills and means to train recruits in an emergency and help keep the peace.
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danman (Site Administrator)
militia would be infiltrated, surveilled & neutralized as needed
if they band together their leadership would be corrupted & directed as needed, or neutralized somehow. Maybe with the help of the local sheriff or state they could make a stand. Maybe.
the feds have experience with repressing revolutionaries & reformers around the world for about a century & have become quite effective - domestically they tend to just infiltrate/coopt & misdirect in order to neutralize any problematic political movement. Typically they get our in front of it. The reason the "left" is so utterly insane there goes back to at least the 1950s when deep hijacking ops started. Now what counts for "left" in US these days are a bunch of gaslit identitarian radlibs or just liberals who have no problem with capitalism or imperialism (they're not leftists at all). This isn't an accident.
imo, only with the help of some existing state apparatus could a revolution be successful, whether now or 50 years in the future when armed health code compliance robot dogs are roaming around (joke, kinda).
the people just need something to rally around & when they're desparate enough they'll find something. They're still way too cosy IMO. A total gun grab might cause some cities, even states to do a stand-off kind of revolt but some stricter regulation wouldn't cause rebellion imo.
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theblackswordsman (Old Spike)
I would change would be with could be in terms of what could happen. Some will, some are smarter than some people think and screen heavily.
Not all of them have centralized command either, some operate in a very decentralized manner. And new ones can be created. I agree that Sherriffs will be an essential asset, and many are fine upstanding people. They are also a community detatchment as opposed to state. They are intermediaries between the commoner and the law and typically have better discretion and conviction beyond your average officer.
There is also Marshals which have the ability to deputize and train citizens. Something every country should have IMO.
Citizens that are paying attention are largely getting smarter too. They understand the issues you have pointed out and are adapting.
There is some factionizing of politcal parties as cadres are forming within the system to combat those of the permenent gov.
I do like the term radlibs, that made me giggle and does have a concise point on the issue.
As far as killer robots 50 years from now, I think closer to 3- 8 before the "good nuff" models are deployed with immediate and massive investment into improving newer better models. That's also why I think they are continueing with a bigger push on gun control to pave the way for the prototypes which will be weaker. In order for them to hold resistance at bay until the overwhelming stuff can be tweaked, manufactured and rolled out.
The early combat capabailities of their programming is already impressive and outright horrifying when you think about what they will be used for.
"imo, only with the help of some existing state apparatus could a revolution be successful"
A few things to keep in mind are that there are still good people within. Statesmen that are problematic could be replaced on a local level through a variety of means.
I agree that many people are still too comfortable or oblivious to be galvanized into action. But that is rapidly changing. The libs arn't really creating new ones, while the patriots are waking 1000's a day. The convoy was a symptom of that. That's why I say the outcome of it was not very important, but simply the event existing was the true victory. Before that things were uncertain. But now we know that humanity will not go quietly into the night.
That's a big part of why the media is panicking to maintain narrative control. New gun control will be respected by a few, but simply disobeyed by most that see things as they are. It's forcible seizures that will trigger revolt. Anything that's not physical force as opposed to a request by means of legislature will mostly be ignored.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Constantly complains about MSM, posts MSM. Hypocrite much?
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theblackswordsman (Old Spike)
Even the msms's broken clock is right twice a day. Usually that's on Tuckers show.
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Bobbob (Site Administrator)
Just maybe don't be trading secrets and strategies with folks that hate your country and everything it stands for is all I'm gonna say.
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theblackswordsman (Old Spike)
If you mean me?
Don't worry, I keep the best tricks far away from the net.
Comments
(Site Administrator)
TBS, I watched your Tucker vid out if respect. I don't watch him by choice (usually). I like the point he raises about the hypocrisy of politicians whose bodyguards will most likely have modified high-capacity magazines for their weapons (wonder why..). But despite all the stuff he throws up here, literally generating noise around the issue, are we supposed to believe that the fact an American kid can buy a sub-machine gun for all intents and purposes on his 18th birthday isn't a factor?..at all?
(Site Administrator)
even if you could figure out why it's happening there's zero you could do about it, especially if your premise is "gun control is off limits". It's probably caused by a range of reasons to do with socioeconomics & culture but the drivers of these things aren't going anywhere. If anything they're only gonna get worse in the forseeable future.
(Old Spike)
The root causes are separation of face to face connection. Deterioration of family and community values, deterioration of faith, mental health, addiction, purposelness and materialism.
So yes there are a ton of issues that need to be sorted out.
If you say well remove the guns then we can talk well... 1. You'll never get them back, 2. Without defences governments don't have to pretend to care anymore because revolts won't scare them as they can be put down with minimal losses. 3. Why would they care to fix the root problems if there is no stick to fear. If they achieve productivity from the population with or without happieness why would they bother to put forth the effort to keep people happy and free?
Wanna talk about disarmament still? Ok governments first. Completely.
Yes it will get worse. A large part of this wave for decades is manufactured to create public outcry for disarmament so enslavement can be complete. You're going to see hundreds if not thousands of shootings in the next few years. All of them to swell that outcry for safety and disarmament to unbearable levels. The answer is No. I'm sure you have learned by now that we cannot be moved or manipulated on that issue. No matter what. Most of us will die on our feet rather than live on our knees.
Let's say our current governments are benevolent just for fun and would never do that. Nothing stopping the next line up. Except an armed population.
Disarmament of the population is off limits forever. Whether we are looked at as villains or not, we arn't putting ourselves into a situation we can't get out of.
So far in the last two years things have gotten worse for people that trust government.
For those of that don't things have not except higher prices.
I'll even ask you guys for your opinion on something. Lets say populations are disarmed, and government goes turbo tyrant to the point of shooting helpless people in the streets openly for fun, or muscling services out of people in broad daylight. Or marching around killer robots that tell you what to do.
What are you going to do then? Who will come save you? How will you stand up to them then if you have no weapons?
Lets not dance with anything else and cut straight to those last three questions. Give me answers I can believe in that are a 100% guarantee that leaves nothing to chance.
(Site Administrator)
I agree with those root causes but would also add foreign policy & the media that conditions people to accept it. Also narcissim which is a result of some of what you listed.
I disagree with your take on gun control. It's not an absolute thing. For instance this guy had to wait until 18 to buy those rifles. That's gun control. Why not make it 21 or 25 or have further conditions on which kind of guns are available to who. This doesn't address the root causes but could help.
Throwing money into mental health isn't going to work in modern US imo. It's too kleptocratic. You already have the highest medical costs in the world with about the lowest result in OECD. I like your societal approach better but the only realistic way to role out policy is via government & this kind of top-down collectivist approach also wouldn't work in modern US. There are only so many options available & enhancing gun control seems the most obvious short term solution.
What's funny to me is a lot of what you listed as root causes could come under a lack of collectivism, just not in terms of a way of political organisation. I'm pretty sure you've railed on collectivism before as if it's the spawn of satan.
I don't agree that public disarmament = enslavement. You don't even need weapons to revolt, you can take them from those who have them or bring them in on it. You can also organize in other ways to leverage your worth against the leaders. And I don't buy that a bunch of individuals owning firearms is preventing the overlords from taking the piss. In a serious revolution all bets are off, a key aim would be to cause factionalism within the state. Anything short of revolution or serious political organizing to hold leaders accountable is just blah blah & I don't see either happening. The state's always about 10 steps ahead.
(Old Spike)
Not everything is about money. It's about building bonds on a community and family level.
Money can't buy genuine relationships and genuine human connection with people that is greater than the sum of it's parts.
The difference between my beliefs and collectivism, is collectivism tends to coalesce into a hivemind. Much like liberal democracies and not dissilmilar to fascism, nazism, and stalinism.
I believe in working together based on individual choices and reasoning, from looking deep inside yourself and coming up with your own reasons why and how you want to help.
This tends to generate a much wider array of ideas and solutions rather than one or two dictated to the masses by the ruling class to the exclusion of all other ideas.
The problem with any form of gun control is the state is the worst group to look to as an authority to decide who is armed and who is not for any reason.
Authority is a lie. Everyone is created equal.
I'm not one to quote songs, but this encapsulates this rational fear quite brilliantly if I may.
"We believe - so we're misled
We assume - so we're played
We confide - so we're deceived
We trust - so we're betrayed"
While on your last paragraph there. Soon many domestic forces will be replaced with weaponized drones and combat robots. Won't really be able to take weapons from them if you don't have any to disable them yourself. Bigger firepower in more hands will become more neccessary than ever soon. It's going to take green tips and explosive to bring a lot of those boys down. I imagine their cyber security will be top notch so only a handful of people will have the skills to hack them.
Armed individuals? No. You're right about that. Very few individuals have the capability of retired Special forces. But organized militias are much better which is recognized (for now) in the states, and they are community not state.
That's why they keep washing the masses with domestic white supremacist terrorism boogy men stories and ominous threats, to try and dissolve the social glue to rally when needed, and deteroriate public trust in these groups. It's not just the groups themselves that are valueable, but a symbol to rally with. Some are better than others, but many of them have the skills and means to train recruits in an emergency and help keep the peace.
(Site Administrator)
militia would be infiltrated, surveilled & neutralized as needed
if they band together their leadership would be corrupted & directed as needed, or neutralized somehow. Maybe with the help of the local sheriff or state they could make a stand. Maybe.
the feds have experience with repressing revolutionaries & reformers around the world for about a century & have become quite effective - domestically they tend to just infiltrate/coopt & misdirect in order to neutralize any problematic political movement. Typically they get our in front of it. The reason the "left" is so utterly insane there goes back to at least the 1950s when deep hijacking ops started. Now what counts for "left" in US these days are a bunch of gaslit identitarian radlibs or just liberals who have no problem with capitalism or imperialism (they're not leftists at all). This isn't an accident.
imo, only with the help of some existing state apparatus could a revolution be successful, whether now or 50 years in the future when armed health code compliance robot dogs are roaming around (joke, kinda).
the people just need something to rally around & when they're desparate enough they'll find something. They're still way too cosy IMO. A total gun grab might cause some cities, even states to do a stand-off kind of revolt but some stricter regulation wouldn't cause rebellion imo.
(Old Spike)
I would change would be with could be in terms of what could happen. Some will, some are smarter than some people think and screen heavily.
Not all of them have centralized command either, some operate in a very decentralized manner. And new ones can be created. I agree that Sherriffs will be an essential asset, and many are fine upstanding people. They are also a community detatchment as opposed to state. They are intermediaries between the commoner and the law and typically have better discretion and conviction beyond your average officer.
There is also Marshals which have the ability to deputize and train citizens. Something every country should have IMO.
Citizens that are paying attention are largely getting smarter too. They understand the issues you have pointed out and are adapting.
There is some factionizing of politcal parties as cadres are forming within the system to combat those of the permenent gov.
I do like the term radlibs, that made me giggle and does have a concise point on the issue.
As far as killer robots 50 years from now, I think closer to 3- 8 before the "good nuff" models are deployed with immediate and massive investment into improving newer better models. That's also why I think they are continueing with a bigger push on gun control to pave the way for the prototypes which will be weaker. In order for them to hold resistance at bay until the overwhelming stuff can be tweaked, manufactured and rolled out.
The early combat capabailities of their programming is already impressive and outright horrifying when you think about what they will be used for.
"imo, only with the help of some existing state apparatus could a revolution be successful"
A few things to keep in mind are that there are still good people within. Statesmen that are problematic could be replaced on a local level through a variety of means.
I agree that many people are still too comfortable or oblivious to be galvanized into action. But that is rapidly changing. The libs arn't really creating new ones, while the patriots are waking 1000's a day. The convoy was a symptom of that. That's why I say the outcome of it was not very important, but simply the event existing was the true victory. Before that things were uncertain. But now we know that humanity will not go quietly into the night.
That's a big part of why the media is panicking to maintain narrative control. New gun control will be respected by a few, but simply disobeyed by most that see things as they are. It's forcible seizures that will trigger revolt. Anything that's not physical force as opposed to a request by means of legislature will mostly be ignored.
(Old Spike)
Constantly complains about MSM, posts MSM. Hypocrite much?
(Old Spike)
Even the msms's broken clock is right twice a day. Usually that's on Tuckers show.
(Site Administrator)
Just maybe don't be trading secrets and strategies with folks that hate your country and everything it stands for is all I'm gonna say.
(Old Spike)
If you mean me?
Don't worry, I keep the best tricks far away from the net.
Can't speak for anyone else though.