What if wolves do this in nature? Is that animal abuse?
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Wolves have a choice whether they want to live together or not. These two don't. Also dogs are not wolves! They are both very insecure and possessive (NOT "dominant") over resources. The owners and other ignorants seem to think this is funny when it is actually enormously stressful to both dogs and could easily be addressed by a competent dog trainer (but then there won't be any "funny" videos any more. This is not a game and may escalate one day, probably triggering owner's remarks similar to "they started fighting out of the blue".
Although wolves usually rely on each other to survive, they may also fight over food and other resources, these two overweight, underchallenged dogs do not need to, hence their behaviour is abnormal and mentally unhealthy.
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
So your saying wovles don't fight because they live in wide open spaces and can just avoid each other?
What I'm going after is that it's a natural tendency and I doubt the owners have trained these to fight.
These instincts come naturally, more in some than others, so I don't think you can put it all on the owner.
That doesn't mean the dogs can't be trained to behave well together and they should if they live under the same roof.
Based on this video alone, you can't say if this is a regular occurance or were they just having a go at it.
Like people under the same roof, a normally functioning family will still fight sometimes.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
"So your saying wovles don't fight because they live in wide open spaces and can just avoid each other?"
It appears you did not read or understand my reply.
"What I'm going after is that it's a natural tendency and I doubt the owners have trained these to fight.
These instincts come naturally, more in some than others, so I don't think you can put it all on the owner.
That doesn't mean the dogs can't be trained to behave well together and they should if they live under the same roof."
Same as above.
"Based on this video alone, you can't say if this is a regular occurance or were they just having a go at it.
Like people under the same roof, a normally functioning family will still fight sometimes. "
Another video was posted with the same dogs celebrating their aggressive behaviour towards each other, that one over food. thus indicating that this is not only a regular occurence but encouraged by the owners. The owners are lucky that these two seem to be able to (still) manage their constant stress and "anger" towards each other.
Of course family and friends get into arguments and of course dogs do too but you as a parent don't encourage your kids to be aggressive agains each other (or others for that matter), as depending on the genetic predisposition of the individual this may end up in desaster.
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
"It appears you did not read or understand my reply."
I did read it. Maybe I didn't understand it. I said wolves fight in nature and you said:
"Wolves have a choice whether they want to live together or not. These two don't.."
Not sure if there's another way to interpret this other than wolves can avoid fights whereas these dogs can't.
Then later you said wolves do fight over food and resources, so I'm not sure what the first part is about.
My point is wolves are sometimes forced into fights. Or if you don't like the wolf comparison same goes for wild / stary dogs.
The situation is basically the same but you would define the other as animal abuse and the other as "nature".
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
At the bottom of my first reply I even said that wolves may fight.
In any case this is not the point at all. Your comparison is completely flawed.
1. wolves are MOT dogs
2. for the two dogs there should be no need to be aggressive about sharing day to day stuff like this
3. hence the situation is not at all the same.
4. this situation is not them being "forced into" a fight.
If animals in their habitat fight over food then there is generally not enough of it. This is not the case here. They are two insecure, possessive dogs that are are in desperate need of help but unfortunately are encouraged to be aggressive with each other for entertainment. Pathetic.
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Bobbob (Site Administrator)
You're both drowning in a teaspoonful of water here. What most of us saw was two plump perhaps too-well-cared-for puppers, possibly in dispute over a new chew toy. The sin here is that they even have steps to help them on and off the couch with their little midget legs while people actively suffer and would give anything to be able to sleep on the floor of that room. I'd say to whoever owns these dogs...buy a kid instead ffs.
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
"1. wolves are MOT dogs"
I didn't say they were. It's just a comparison between domesticated animals vs wild animals that share genetic roots.
If you want to be anal about it, we could compare wild dogs.
"2. for the two dogs there should be no need to be aggressive about sharing day to day stuff like this"
Correct. Theres no need for it, but it's an instinct of dogs.
You see it in most dogs, they exhibit this but usually in a more docile manner, like being possessive of a toy.
It's there but much more toned down and turned into a game.
"3. hence the situation is not at all the same."
Do you think they were trained to be aggressive towards each other?
"If animals in their habitat fight over food then there is generally not enough of it. This is not the case here."
Yes, but animals don't necessarily have the comprehension for this, so instinct kicks in.
I wouldn't call this animal abuse. Just lack of training. The dogs just do what they do naturally.
But yeah, I checked out the channel and theres many of these. I see where you're coming from...
Shitty owners if they just film it and let it go on.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
"I checked out the channel and theres many of these. I see where you're coming from... Shitty owners if they just film it and let it go on."
That is my whole point to begin with.
I won't reply to the rest of your comment as it will take a lot of time to explain, and you have your mind set and are not willing to even recognise an expert's opinion on the topic.
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
"willing to even recognise an expert's opinion on the topic."
My question was if this could be considered animal abuse or not.
It's more of a moral question or maybe even a legal one.
I think your expertise is limited to dog training, and on that point we agree. These dogs could use some training in getting along.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
"My question was if this could be considered animal abuse or not."
Well to me it is, despite this not being illegal.
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Pantysoaker (Long Spike)
U think a light colored dog living next to a dark colored dog is animal abuse? Ur racism is showing.
Comments
(Old Spike)
again, animal abuse. not funny.
(Site Moderator)
What if wolves do this in nature? Is that animal abuse?
(Old Spike)
Wolves have a choice whether they want to live together or not. These two don't. Also dogs are not wolves! They are both very insecure and possessive (NOT "dominant") over resources. The owners and other ignorants seem to think this is funny when it is actually enormously stressful to both dogs and could easily be addressed by a competent dog trainer (but then there won't be any "funny" videos any more. This is not a game and may escalate one day, probably triggering owner's remarks similar to "they started fighting out of the blue".
Although wolves usually rely on each other to survive, they may also fight over food and other resources, these two overweight, underchallenged dogs do not need to, hence their behaviour is abnormal and mentally unhealthy.
(Site Moderator)
So your saying wovles don't fight because they live in wide open spaces and can just avoid each other?
What I'm going after is that it's a natural tendency and I doubt the owners have trained these to fight.
These instincts come naturally, more in some than others, so I don't think you can put it all on the owner.
That doesn't mean the dogs can't be trained to behave well together and they should if they live under the same roof.
Based on this video alone, you can't say if this is a regular occurance or were they just having a go at it.
Like people under the same roof, a normally functioning family will still fight sometimes.
(Old Spike)
"So your saying wovles don't fight because they live in wide open spaces and can just avoid each other?"
It appears you did not read or understand my reply.
"What I'm going after is that it's a natural tendency and I doubt the owners have trained these to fight.
These instincts come naturally, more in some than others, so I don't think you can put it all on the owner.
That doesn't mean the dogs can't be trained to behave well together and they should if they live under the same roof."
Same as above.
"Based on this video alone, you can't say if this is a regular occurance or were they just having a go at it.
Like people under the same roof, a normally functioning family will still fight sometimes. "
Another video was posted with the same dogs celebrating their aggressive behaviour towards each other, that one over food. thus indicating that this is not only a regular occurence but encouraged by the owners. The owners are lucky that these two seem to be able to (still) manage their constant stress and "anger" towards each other.
Of course family and friends get into arguments and of course dogs do too but you as a parent don't encourage your kids to be aggressive agains each other (or others for that matter), as depending on the genetic predisposition of the individual this may end up in desaster.
(Site Moderator)
"It appears you did not read or understand my reply."
I did read it. Maybe I didn't understand it. I said wolves fight in nature and you said:
"Wolves have a choice whether they want to live together or not. These two don't.."
Not sure if there's another way to interpret this other than wolves can avoid fights whereas these dogs can't.
Then later you said wolves do fight over food and resources, so I'm not sure what the first part is about.
My point is wolves are sometimes forced into fights. Or if you don't like the wolf comparison same goes for wild / stary dogs.
The situation is basically the same but you would define the other as animal abuse and the other as "nature".
(Old Spike)
At the bottom of my first reply I even said that wolves may fight.
In any case this is not the point at all. Your comparison is completely flawed.
1. wolves are MOT dogs
2. for the two dogs there should be no need to be aggressive about sharing day to day stuff like this
3. hence the situation is not at all the same.
4. this situation is not them being "forced into" a fight.
If animals in their habitat fight over food then there is generally not enough of it. This is not the case here. They are two insecure, possessive dogs that are are in desperate need of help but unfortunately are encouraged to be aggressive with each other for entertainment. Pathetic.
(Site Administrator)
You're both drowning in a teaspoonful of water here. What most of us saw was two plump perhaps too-well-cared-for puppers, possibly in dispute over a new chew toy. The sin here is that they even have steps to help them on and off the couch with their little midget legs while people actively suffer and would give anything to be able to sleep on the floor of that room. I'd say to whoever owns these dogs...buy a kid instead ffs.
(Site Moderator)
"1. wolves are MOT dogs"
I didn't say they were. It's just a comparison between domesticated animals vs wild animals that share genetic roots.
If you want to be anal about it, we could compare wild dogs.
"2. for the two dogs there should be no need to be aggressive about sharing day to day stuff like this"
Correct. Theres no need for it, but it's an instinct of dogs.
You see it in most dogs, they exhibit this but usually in a more docile manner, like being possessive of a toy.
It's there but much more toned down and turned into a game.
"3. hence the situation is not at all the same."
Do you think they were trained to be aggressive towards each other?
"If animals in their habitat fight over food then there is generally not enough of it. This is not the case here."
Yes, but animals don't necessarily have the comprehension for this, so instinct kicks in.
I wouldn't call this animal abuse. Just lack of training. The dogs just do what they do naturally.
But yeah, I checked out the channel and theres many of these. I see where you're coming from...
Shitty owners if they just film it and let it go on.
(Old Spike)
"I checked out the channel and theres many of these. I see where you're coming from... Shitty owners if they just film it and let it go on."
That is my whole point to begin with.
I won't reply to the rest of your comment as it will take a lot of time to explain, and you have your mind set and are not willing to even recognise an expert's opinion on the topic.
(Site Moderator)
"willing to even recognise an expert's opinion on the topic."
My question was if this could be considered animal abuse or not.
It's more of a moral question or maybe even a legal one.
I think your expertise is limited to dog training, and on that point we agree. These dogs could use some training in getting along.
(Old Spike)
"My question was if this could be considered animal abuse or not."
Well to me it is, despite this not being illegal.
(Long Spike)
U think a light colored dog living next to a dark colored dog is animal abuse? Ur racism is showing.