Ok... ok, wait..
So you're telling me that a bunch of refugees have settled into your country,.. they're not making an effort to integrate into the culture and society of their host nation...
AND they're forming their own cliques, divided along ethnic and religious grounds?!?!?! That's freaking crazy!!!!!! Throw them out.
Right guys??...
... Right guys?!?!
(3 votes)
Comments
(Old Spike)
I am a little unsure of the situation for these refugees. The Ukrainians surely have to return once the war is over and if russia doesn't "win", correct? The russians surely will be allowed to stay?
To those complaining about "the neighborhood", like the fat entitled bitch, one should simply say "no one asked you to come here, if you don't like it fuck off!" With regards to "white bars", you will find similar "clusters of ethnicity" all over the world, imho this only becomes a problem when "locals" are not allowed in.
I can only speak for myself and my wife here:
I have lived almost half my life "abroad" first in the UK now in Spain. I never wanted to become part of a "german community", in England there are not that many Germans to start with, here on Mallorca there are, and they can be divided into 3 main groups:
The rich that don't need to integrate or learn the language
The naïve that think "this is part of germany" and make themselves dependent on other germans that successfully integrated and speak the language.
The ones that actually "BLEND IN", admittedly this is easier for non-muslims as the "religious values" are not that different and they don't out themselves with clothing or dietary requirements.
My wife had spanish friends more by co-incidence in both Germany and England, however, this was not "spanish only" and all spoke the country's language and of course all nationalities were welcome in the group.
So it all comes down to choice. One chooses to be an integral part of the overall community or not, the former is easier the less one suffers from the "I am proud of being *insert nationality or ethnicity here*" syndrome.
(Site Administrator)
Ok. But i noticed above that you kind of position the Muslims as having special requirements, though I'm not sure you're implying the host nation needs to accommodate these. Still (according to the video) as a multi-religious country, Sri Lankans at 70% Buddhist seem to have noticed that the Ukrainians and Russians are setting up spaces that are apparently exclusive. Wondering if this is the beginning of what is now common in large European countries, with refugees and migrants there.
(Old Spike)
It is the other way round. If I would have to live in a predominantly muslim country I would frequent bars and restaurants that sell alcohol and sell food during ramadan, which would be a complete nono for locals. I would also seek company in which my wife would not be required to wear a head scarf. As my stay most definitely would not be "for the rest of my life" but rather for a defined period I would also only learn very basic stuff of the local language and socialise with people that I can communicate with.
In a predominantly jewish country I would frequent restaurants that sell non-kosher meat and shell fish.
So I would deal with it. The same respect I would expect from people with a different ethnic background coming to the country where I live:
With regards to the russians/ukrainians in sri lanka, I guess they also seek company of people they can easily communicate with and thus select establishments accordingly, maybe sri lankens would even be welcome there but not go anyway as they probably don't speak russian. Just imagine americans or canadians in the same situation....
In effect people have a tendency to "herd" and most will do so with what they know.
(Site Administrator)
Hmm. Right. Okay. And say for example for islamists (note, I'm not saying muslims here) in EU countries who say 'my problem? no problem!' and instead go on to set up a parallel society within the host nation, with its own rules and enforced laws. What should the host nation do, especially in the early stages as in the Russians and Ukranians in Sri Lanka example above? How does the host nation reassert its way of life in what, if left unchecked, could *also* go on to become 'no go' zones in its major cities?
(Old Spike)
This is already happening in european countries and imho a proof for the failure of past integration policies.These things need to be addressed with the full force of the law. One of the roots is, similar to the US and canada when immigration started there, that people of the same ethnic background would gather in their houses of worship, in europe in the synagoges more and more radical preachers took over (and probably still do).
What should be done with refugees? that would depend on whether their stay is supposed to be temporary or indefinite, I guess, hence my question.
(Site Administrator)
Not sure I agree that a distinction needs to be made between temporary and permanent residency of refugees, daftcunt. A 2-tier system would be impractical and impossible to enforce. First of all we know as fact that many temporary residents go on to challenge and extend their stay,.. because they can. Despite the many advocacy groups working for refugees and migrants, countries could simply enforce the old ways.. ie. 'ignorance of the law (of the land) is no excuse.' Extreme but common examples, sadly: Oh, you molested a 14yr old cause you come from a place that's particularly 'rapey'? It's part of your culture to smack around or even kill your wife? Here, enjoy these temporary accommodations, compliments of the state.. on a floating barge prison.. we keep anchored.. 5 miles off the coast. Harsh, I know. But, something to consider (in some less extreme form), instead of the tried and failed approach of do nothing and hope for the best.
(Old Spike)
At least in europe "A 2-tier system" is already in place as they make this distinction.
" Extreme but common examples, sadly: Oh, you molested a 14yr old cause you come from a place that's particularly 'rapey'? It's part of your culture to smack around or even kill your wife? Here, enjoy these temporary accommodations, compliments of the state.."
It may be true that petty crimes committed by refugees are taken more lightly than they should be but not serious shit like rape, at least in europe. It is also not true that vicious crimes committed out of "religious" reasons is generally given more leeway or results in "lighter" sentencing, it is -as it should be- quite the opposite.
In Germany they are trying to introduce a "prepaid card" system rather than cash pay outs for refugees and asylum seekers, which does not go down very well with those that want to cheat the system, lol. Hopefully it will deter some of the bad apples.
General "enclosed encampment" of refugees I would only see worth considering for those that cannot prove where they are from due to lack of proper documentation and a must for those that had their application for asylum declined. Let's face it the places where they come from would be way worse than a enclosed refugee camp in Germany.
(Spiker)
Setting up their own enforced laws.....Are you talking about shomrim? Regardless, everyone everywhere should get used to the idea of accommodating migrants of all sorts, thanks to "The Global Compact for Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration", which is endorsed by 152 countries.
(Site Administrator)
Accommodation to what extent. Rapeyness? Honor-killingness? I'm asking as I did above to daftcunt (without getting a real answer) at which point does a society, despite it's well-meaning extremely virtue-signalling politicians say..'no. unh-uh. play nice following country laws like the rest of us or get out.'
And what about showing some gratitude.. See linked video, new, migrants trash their free hotel in Ireland. I mean, it was Irish food, but still.
(Old Spike)
"'no. unh-uh. play nice following country laws like the rest of us or get out.'"
Which country does not? I don't know of any, hence my reply. The "get out" also will depend on the status of the refugee/immigrant.
With regards to the video link, I couldn't find a reputable source for that. So for the time being I call bull.
(Site Administrator)
Refugees. Damage. Hotel. Ireland. Google it. Happened yesterday March 14.
Apparently started as a row between 2 families staying there. No surprise it coincides with Ramadan. But you're surprised it wasn't featured on the evening news?
(Old Spike)
Allegedly happened yesterday? So even IF this is legit (which of course may be) we don't know how these people will be prosecuted now, do we?
(Site Administrator)
Suggest tying them to a chair and forcing them to watch curley red-headed Irish locals drinking tall glasses of water while the sun is still up,..smacking their lips and saying things like 'mwaaa...so good' and 'refreshing'.
I mean, maybe they're just dehydrated.
(Old Spike)
Be that as it may, can you provide any supporting evidence of your claim that "migrant" sexual or otherwise violent offenders are treated more lenient when prosecuted?
(Site Administrator)
Sure. The next one I hear about I will append here.
(Old Spike)
So you don't have any evidence for your claims whatsoever but just want to stir up (more) hate?? Oh boy, if your god exists it will send you straight to hell......
(Site Administrator)
Here we go, straight from Mr. Love. All I said was it's the weekend and I'm not gonna go running searches on 'rape' + 'migrants'. Other stuff to do than be your entertainment on this. Shabbat shalom motherf*cker..
(Old Spike)
yeah, blah bla blah. If you had any you would happily share. You don't. As always.
(Site Administrator)
Lol. You won't remember this because of your well-documented amnesia but many many years ago I responded to you for the first time on this site when you wrote 'A good Canadian is a dead Canadian.' I asked if your grandpa was a big war hero cause maybe he killed a bunch of Canadians/Allies in the war or something. Made you bleed out of your hatch, actually. So whenever you go all prosecutorial on me and try to act like we're in some bizarro-reverse-Nuremberg courtroom setting where you're owed responses to inane and sometimes obvious questions,.. I believe this was the first time I ever called you putz and still get a chuckle out of it. So here. A response via meme..for old times sake..cause I still get a kick thinking about it.
The perfect candle doesn't exi..
(Old Spike)
Can't remember but good to know that even in our first encounter I didn't take you seriously and a bit worrying that since then I apparently live rent free in your head.
You put so much "effort" into this reply when you only would have needed to find one or two examples of supporting evidence of your claim that "migrant" sexual or otherwise violent offenders are treated more lenient when prosecuted.
(Site Administrator)
'since then I apparently live rent free in your head.' LoL, I promise you don't. More like buried in the sub-basement. It's just everytime you go this way and I think 'putz' I remember how this is a term I reserve exclusively for you.
I found one in my feed about a racial sentencing discount. It's on the laptop, so I'll post here as an edit when I'm back home. Hold tight.
[edit: okay, links added in comment below]
(Site Administrator)
Another set of facts for you.
You realize daftcunt that IF they show more than their eyes, really bad, religiously-sanctioned stuff happens, right? Are you going to tell us that the many instances of rape reported are simple religious practice? Something Europe needs to allow, as part of further.. reasonable accommodation? I mean, look at the beauty that's been lost (buried/concealed) in the countries above already. It's allowing this to spread into Europe that would be a 'spreading of hate'. But go on - tell us how well doing nothing at all is working out for us.
(Old Spike)
and here we go, off topic and even more pathetic, lol. I already commented on this before btw.:
"This is already happening in european countries and imho a proof for the failure of past integration policies.These things need to be addressed with the full force of the law. One of the roots is, similar to the US and canada when immigration started there, that people of the same ethnic background would gather in their houses of worship, in europe in the synagoges more and more radical preachers took over (and probably still do)."
What kind of clothing people wear is of no concern here unless they hinder identification/prosecution.
Where is your evidence that "migrant" sexual or otherwise violent offenders are treated more lenient when prosecuted that you are sooooooo concerned about? Where does this happen?
(Site Administrator)
Your judgment only increases my self esteem, reinforced by the idiocy of that first paragraph, which smacks of your perfunctory understanding of religion and agenda to pin all of society's ills on it. Seriously, what time am I driving you to the airport?
Back on topic as you say, and since you bring up Canada, what better place to research since I think we'll all agree that it tries to emulate the liberal policies of Europe much more than the US and we're seeing the beginnings of problems with integration here too, similar to those that are becoming the norm in major European cities. (Remember this thread started off asking what can be done differently, early on, for better integration).
Here are the links. First of all is a Government of Canada website, enshrining into law a mechanism to reduce or eliminate minimum sentences for migrants that would otherwise impact their eligibility for citizenship. Second is from a national daily newspaper (all I had to do was type 'lighter, reduced, sentencing, migrants' into my browser...so, yeah, that's a thing). Reputable sources only.:
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-justice/news/2021/12/mandatory-minimum-penalties-to-be-repealed.html
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jamie-sarkonak-racial-discounts-for-sex-offenders-undermine-justice/wcm/ae2dda4d-9537-4858-8248-4f901482caa9/amp/
So before you run around talking shit as a reflex rather than proposing concrete solutions, enjoy another meme from Ze fazerland, showing what your cousins are currently thinking about your useless virtue-signalling self.
(Old Spike)
First link aimed at:
".....seen the evidence of the disproportionate representation of Indigenous peoples, as well as Black Canadians and members of marginalized communities, both as offenders and as victims. "
One would have to look at whether the history was that these people were in general sentenced harder. It does not say anything about refugees and asylum seekers. Also the liberation will apply to all offenders, not just minorities.
Second link:
"The judge, however, went further, noting that the accused “has suffered from dislocation from his community, addiction, poverty and family breakdown. There is no doubt this has had a dramatic effect … and is directly related to his conduct on the day in question.”
“Incarceration is not the answer for (the accused),” wrote the judge. “It would only add to the problem of over-incarceration of Indigenous people and would be contrary to the clear direction given to the judiciary by Parliament. It would also have the unintended consequence of significantly undermining the progress (the accused) has made in the community already.” "
Unless "Indigenous people" are "migrants" to you (in which case you should consult the oxford dictionary) I cannot see the relevance to your argument regarding migrants, unless by "migrants" you really mean "non white people", which would make you a racist bigot (which I actually think you are).
(Long Spike)
if you're a homophobe and a transphobe. you might as well be a xenophobe, it seems like a logical step. a year ago he said he was falling just right of center. must have been a long year cause he seems to be quite far away from that center line. props to him for speed running it
more about the links
first link says current laws and sentencing isn't working as a deterrent for some minorities. that the changes will allow judges to give lower or higher sentencing then before. more importantly, changes won't apply to sexual offenses, murder and a few others
second link. all 4 guys got sentences that fall within sentencing guidelines. none of them received special treatment because of race, background or immigration status. it's an opinion piece written for it's online comment section who are primarily older, more conservative people that use their real names as a username while they espouse hate
(Site Administrator)
Fwah..smells like musty feet and a slightly-off bag of Cheetos in here. Well look who came off his self-imposed exile. That's nice I guess. Update your file. I had said 'just left of center' (but everything is 'right-leaning' from your perspective).
Homophobe. Transphobe. Xenophobe. Looks like you and daftcunt are taking turns with the istophobe stamp. Careful you don't give each other something.
(Old Spike)
@sal
correct, the sentencing strategy is changed for ALL offenders because the current strategies do not work for a considerable proportion of them. Only time will tell whether or not this works.
I didn't read past the first example in the second article. because actually one should have stopped reading after the words "the law of racial discounts", which is not only slightly misleading but outright wrong.
(Site Administrator)
Once again you ask for information, get it, admit openly you didn't bother to read it (from one of Canada's leading dailies, not some anonymous rag) AND proceed to shout epithets because of the twisted dialog held with yourself. AND still ducking the 1 question you were asked about practical solutions. Putz.
(Site Administrator)
'Members of marginalized communities' will cover it. Don't get your lederhosen in a twist. The first link was there to show you that a 2-tier sentencing approach is written into law (here). And sorry, did you assume 'refugees' can't be black, white or whatever as explicitly referred to in the National Post article? I get the impression you'd only be happy if the legislation specifically targeted 'Arab' or 'Muslim' claimants. Maybe cut short the victory lap there chummmmmp...gosh, those memes above apparently irritated you hard. So go on, this is Me now asking You (Again), where are you with those recommendations on improving integration going forward?
Meanwhile...more memes from Germany on the perception of the situation over there:
(Old Spike)
"'Members of marginalized communities' will cover it."
lol, you would have had a blast in 1930's and early 40's germany where these "marginalised communities" were treated to your liking.
Looking for simple answers to complex problems? Ask your peers in your right wing blogs and forums, On here these topics are way too complex to discuss especially with racist bigots like you. Now go and seek comfort in jp's how to better live your white male life book. Because you really are the one that is marginalised, you poor pure bred white puppy.
(Site Administrator)
I told you that my people didn't make a big enough deal about it so morons like you sometimes lop them in with the rest of the Balkans. But we said, and lord knows your grandpappy and even your politicians today still feel resentment at Greece for what could have been.. Little Greece could have just lay down. Instead she stood and faught (and bled) against fascism and arianism. I'm proud to still align myself with my grandpappy's values. We said you're not. Projection much?
(Old Spike)
Being proud of other people's accomplishments? Figures.
And still you didn't learn anything from your grandfather but became a racist bigot.I guess that is the christian way.
Lastly, just because you hate on a different "type" of people than the nazis did doesn't make you a different person.
(Site Administrator)
Being proud of and maintaining your heritage is awesome. You should try it.. some other lifetime.
Moving on. What race am I supposedly hating on, per the discussions you've held with yourself in your esteemed opinion. We said above I made the distinction between muslim and islamicist. That and the fact that Muhammad was white (documented in the Quran and Hadith).. So what's your point.
(Old Spike)
".. I made the distinction between muslim and islamicist."
If you say so, it must be true.....
ROFL
And you are in good company. That of the least racist man in the world....
(Site Administrator)
While living in french Canada may have caused me to throw in an extra 'cisme' someone who believes himself to be as clever as you do would see the top search results of 'islamist vs muslim' and find them informative. We can leave that there.
Now what to say about all we learned about you on this merry ride, daftcunt. You revealed you pathologize not only those with a spiritual side, but also those with a love of their culture and heritage.. both of which you would have missed out on I suppose as what...a refugee yourself? One of the 'Boys from Brazil', maybe? A few may have chuckled as you a German brought up a Greek's 'whiteness'. Finally we get that you're not just lacking a spiritual foundation, you're lacking roots. And it busts you when you encounter those who don't. Pathetic, really. Our sympathies.
(Old Spike)
There is a clear distinction to be made between "a love of their culture and heritage" and "to be proud of something one has not achieved or contributed to (especially when this is based on the pure co-incidence of being born in a specific place or into a certain ethnic group)".
One of them is absolutely fine, the other is at best silly, at worst dangerous.
Of course you don't get that, you suffer of one of them.
(Site Administrator)
That's just it, you contribute by maintaining the culture. And to think you get mad when I point out western atheists such as yourself are mostly just failed christians (term not mine, but I like it). I mean, you frequently argue atheism is passive, maybe this is where the passivity comes from. Atheism..was done to you.
(Old Spike)
Oh boy. Everyone is born an atheist. The delusions of the believer are imprinted so early in life BY PEOPLE so that they often can't let go of them.
(Site Administrator)
Yeah, but mama and papa daftcunt let you 'decide' for yourself cause they were more evolved.
(Old Spike)
Finally you get it. lol
But no, not "more evolved", just less blinkered, less needy and not desperate to feel "superior" to others.
(Site Administrator)
Now YOU'RE the one couldn't detect sarcasm if it hit you with a stick.
(Old Spike)
(Site Administrator)
Yeah. Bobbob points out that most western atheists are merely defaulted into this belief set. The result of failed Christians. And daftcunt says wut-wuuut?