He's well informed, state law is what makes everything difficult, in Belgium they would be guilty but Michigan law is not stating anything about gun storage... my heart say's they should walk.. on the other hand examples should be made to stop it, difficult case to say the least, but i hope they walk free
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stokkebye (sounds retarded)
Its a slippery slope to start charging parents. Personally I want to hold parents accountable for everything their spawns do! Kids are products of their parents and if their parents fuck up then they should be responsible, but where does that end?... Start? Mental aptitude tests to have a child? Eugenics? "Kids" in their twenties still are a product of their parents. What about abuse?... Neglect? Creating a monster that goes on to be a serial killer later in life, are they not still products of their parents? There are plenty of cases where kids stab other kids, killing them, one case mother was a crackhead, should she be charged?
Now in this case, what if a kid took their parents car and ran over people, killing them? Charge the parents for leaving the keys out?
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Dude (Old Spike)
My guess is the charges won't stick on the parents
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stokkebye (sounds retarded)
Of course not, the bigger qeustion is to ask whether charges should have been filed in the first place and if not then this is pure emotionally charged abuse of the justice system! CHarging someone should be based on law NOT emotions!
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sal9000 (Old Spike)
can't buy a gun from a licensed dealer in michigan without also buying a trigger lock or gun case. the gun they say was locked in a drawer, probably wasn't locked and it probably wasn't in the case or had the trigger lock on. parents hired their lawyers but the kid has a court appointed lawyer. neighbors have called cps about the parents leaving him home alone at 8 so they can go bar hopping. the parents are fucked and they're going to deserve all of it
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stokkebye (sounds retarded)
Did you even bother to watch the vid? mich does NOT require a gun to be locked. Kid is fucked no matter what, why waste money on a lawyer? Wasnt CPS call like 7 years ago? Who cares, they are not being charged with neglect.
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sal9000 (Old Spike)
its your kin. i get that your entire thing is to diminish how much of a responsibility you have for your underage child's actions regardless of how much your actions had an influence on them but if the kids a minor. they're your responsibilities. you buy a car for an underage kid who doesn't have a license and not on your insurance. they take your car and kill someone, thats on you. its your car.
did you do any research other then watching the video? michigan passed a bill saying you had to buy a lock when you buy the gun from a licensed dealer. explaining to the judge that you threw it away cause michigan says you don't have to lock it up isn't going to sound all that great considering the outcome
the parents aren't going to be charged for negelct. they're going to be charged because of neglect. its they're fault little crumbley got a hold of the gun
STATE OF MICHIGAN Use & Storage of a Firearm in a Home Environment
You may be criminally and civilly liable for any harm caused by a person less than 18 years of age who lawfully gains unsupervised access to your firearm if unlawfully stored
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Dude (Old Spike)
Then they are fucked..
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stokkebye (sounds retarded)
Good thing you are just an idiot and not a lawyer. Holy fuck dude.
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Dude (Old Spike)
You can not circumvent the law, the prosecutor would have a rock solid case, i defended a few in court, this is neglect according to the law, there is no argument that would hold up to a judge, maybe a jury but i doubt it.
And read it, what is that saying under your name?
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stokkebye (sounds retarded)
I wasnt talking to you but since you took up the retard torch as well, what Sal posted and what he fails to realize, cuz he cant read, is that is NOT a law, posting a sign saying what it says does not make it a law, jesus christ you two are dumb. Find me a law and prove me wrong. Forcing you to buy a lock or supplying you with a lock does not mean you MUST lock your gun.
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sal9000 (Old Spike)
never said it was a law. i said it was in a bill they passed. the original one i quoted was from michigan police. the one from the bill has the part about multiple signs being posted around the store with the same info telling you of your potential liability
A federally licensed firearms dealer in this state shall post in a conspicuous manner at the entrances, exits, and all points of sale on the premises where firearms are sold a notice that says the following: “You may be criminally andcivilly liable for any harm caused by a person less than 18 years of age who lawfully gains unsupervised access to yourfirearm if unlawfully stored.”.
forcing you to buy a lock or supplying one means you can't say i didnt have one. you leave the store with the bare mininum to secure your weapon
how you decide to store your gun is going to be a factor when deciding to charge you with manslaughter just like all the signs warn you about when buying the gun and having to buy the lock with it, in michigan that is
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stokkebye (sounds retarded)
Again, so what? Its just a warning, a public service announcement. Its meaningless. Its like pointing to the box on booze that says "Dont drink and drive" and becuase you gave a beer to someone and they drove drunk and saying "Ha, YOU are now culpible becuase the box says so!". Unless there is a law that specifically says you must lock your gun with kids in the house the parents should not be charged.
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sal9000 (Old Spike)
it's a warning that you might be liable
in new york state. throwing a party and having someone drive drunk and crash means you could be sued for general negligence. depending on how negligent you were and how much destruction they caused, i could see a manslaughter charge. when your a host, you take on responsibilities, much like being a parent
i bet you're the kind of guy that would refuse to replace the neighbors windows if your kid broke it
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
No, he's the kind of guy that drives drunk out of their mind and is proud of it.
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stokkebye (sounds retarded)
And the other stooge makes an appearance! Nothing to add to the convo but stupid little insults. Wouldnt have expected anything more!
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
To quote the village idiot:
"I've made it home black out drunk numerous times without a dent on my car! Trick is to close one eye and focus really hard on the center lines."
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stokkebye (sounds retarded)
Again, what does that have anything to do with what we are talking about? Do you want to charge my father for that or something? Where are you going with this? Fuckin stooge!!!
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sal9000 (Old Spike)
if your dad had taken some responsibility, your life you would be completly different. you wouldn't have been arrested so many times and you wouldn't have less than your parents did at this age. the people you hang around would be different. you wouldnt have a kid with the one you do. daddy fucked up generations to come
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Well, if you look into Sal's comment, he mentioned drunk driving, I just pointed out to him that this kind of thing does not seem to be a good example when "conversing" with the village idiot.
Then you decided to reply in your usual brainless fashion and I just quoted yourself back to you, snowflake, in case you forgot. So if anyone insulted you it is yourself actually.
Boy, is this hillarious.
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stokkebye (sounds retarded)
Civil is a different ball game, Im all for it.
I have said this before, I want parents to be held accountable for their spawns. But I dont want an arbitrary application of laws. Its a slippery slope. If you want to charge parents then pass a law for it. Dont skirt around laws and apply them based on emotions. Ignorance of the law does have its limits, you have to be charged with a law that actually applies and is not ambiguous, otherwise it is unconstitutional. There has to be clear cut lines in the sand that are defined. I dont know what law could be made or how to apply it, thats what we pay people for. Do you want to see parents being made to put their kids in mental hospitals becuase they MIGHT be psycho enough to shoot up a school? I'd bet a lot of people would have problems with that. Where does it end and when should it start? What if the kid used a knife? Should parents be charged? What if the kid used the parents car? How about a fight in school/ Your kid harmed another kid, should the parents be charged? I feel like Im arguing with a bunch of five yr olds! Whats next, "I know you are but what am I?". FFS use some critical thinking skills!
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Dude (Old Spike)
If a notice on a piece of software or medicine can be used in law why not any other notice?
Adverse effects of medicines are displayed in case it happens so you have no case, you were notified, the notice itself is not legal binding, but there must be something in the law otherwise gun stores would not have the notices
Comments
(Old Spike)
He's well informed, state law is what makes everything difficult, in Belgium they would be guilty but Michigan law is not stating anything about gun storage... my heart say's they should walk.. on the other hand examples should be made to stop it, difficult case to say the least, but i hope they walk free
(sounds retarded)
Its a slippery slope to start charging parents. Personally I want to hold parents accountable for everything their spawns do! Kids are products of their parents and if their parents fuck up then they should be responsible, but where does that end?... Start? Mental aptitude tests to have a child? Eugenics? "Kids" in their twenties still are a product of their parents. What about abuse?... Neglect? Creating a monster that goes on to be a serial killer later in life, are they not still products of their parents? There are plenty of cases where kids stab other kids, killing them, one case mother was a crackhead, should she be charged?
Now in this case, what if a kid took their parents car and ran over people, killing them? Charge the parents for leaving the keys out?
(Old Spike)
My guess is the charges won't stick on the parents
(sounds retarded)
Of course not, the bigger qeustion is to ask whether charges should have been filed in the first place and if not then this is pure emotionally charged abuse of the justice system! CHarging someone should be based on law NOT emotions!
(Old Spike)
can't buy a gun from a licensed dealer in michigan without also buying a trigger lock or gun case. the gun they say was locked in a drawer, probably wasn't locked and it probably wasn't in the case or had the trigger lock on. parents hired their lawyers but the kid has a court appointed lawyer. neighbors have called cps about the parents leaving him home alone at 8 so they can go bar hopping. the parents are fucked and they're going to deserve all of it
(sounds retarded)
Did you even bother to watch the vid? mich does NOT require a gun to be locked. Kid is fucked no matter what, why waste money on a lawyer? Wasnt CPS call like 7 years ago? Who cares, they are not being charged with neglect.
(Old Spike)
its your kin. i get that your entire thing is to diminish how much of a responsibility you have for your underage child's actions regardless of how much your actions had an influence on them but if the kids a minor. they're your responsibilities. you buy a car for an underage kid who doesn't have a license and not on your insurance. they take your car and kill someone, thats on you. its your car.
did you do any research other then watching the video? michigan passed a bill saying you had to buy a lock when you buy the gun from a licensed dealer. explaining to the judge that you threw it away cause michigan says you don't have to lock it up isn't going to sound all that great considering the outcome
the parents aren't going to be charged for negelct. they're going to be charged because of neglect. its they're fault little crumbley got a hold of the gun
STATE OF MICHIGAN
Use & Storage of a Firearm in a Home Environment
You may be criminally and civilly liable for any harm caused by a
person less than 18 years of age who lawfully gains unsupervised
access to your firearm if unlawfully stored
(Old Spike)
Then they are fucked..
(sounds retarded)
Good thing you are just an idiot and not a lawyer. Holy fuck dude.
(Old Spike)
You can not circumvent the law, the prosecutor would have a rock solid case, i defended a few in court, this is neglect according to the law, there is no argument that would hold up to a judge, maybe a jury but i doubt it.
And read it, what is that saying under your name?
(sounds retarded)
I wasnt talking to you but since you took up the retard torch as well, what Sal posted and what he fails to realize, cuz he cant read, is that is NOT a law, posting a sign saying what it says does not make it a law, jesus christ you two are dumb. Find me a law and prove me wrong. Forcing you to buy a lock or supplying you with a lock does not mean you MUST lock your gun.
(Old Spike)
never said it was a law. i said it was in a bill they passed. the original one i quoted was from michigan police. the one from the bill has the part about multiple signs being posted around the store with the same info telling you of your potential liability
A federally licensed firearms dealer in this state shall post in a conspicuous manner at the entrances, exits, and
all points of sale on the premises where firearms are sold a notice that says the following: “You may be criminally and civilly liable for any harm caused by a person less than 18 years of age who lawfully gains unsupervised access to your firearm if unlawfully stored.”.
forcing you to buy a lock or supplying one means you can't say i didnt have one. you leave the store with the bare mininum to secure your weapon
how you decide to store your gun is going to be a factor when deciding to charge you with manslaughter just like all the signs warn you about when buying the gun and having to buy the lock with it, in michigan that is
(sounds retarded)
Again, so what? Its just a warning, a public service announcement. Its meaningless. Its like pointing to the box on booze that says "Dont drink and drive" and becuase you gave a beer to someone and they drove drunk and saying "Ha, YOU are now culpible becuase the box says so!". Unless there is a law that specifically says you must lock your gun with kids in the house the parents should not be charged.
(Old Spike)
it's a warning that you might be liable
in new york state. throwing a party and having someone drive drunk and crash means you could be sued for general negligence. depending on how negligent you were and how much destruction they caused, i could see a manslaughter charge. when your a host, you take on responsibilities, much like being a parent
i bet you're the kind of guy that would refuse to replace the neighbors windows if your kid broke it
(Old Spike)
No, he's the kind of guy that drives drunk out of their mind and is proud of it.
(sounds retarded)
And the other stooge makes an appearance! Nothing to add to the convo but stupid little insults. Wouldnt have expected anything more!
(Old Spike)
To quote the village idiot:
"I've made it home black out drunk numerous times without a dent on my car! Trick is to close one eye and focus really hard on the center lines."
(sounds retarded)
Again, what does that have anything to do with what we are talking about? Do you want to charge my father for that or something? Where are you going with this? Fuckin stooge!!!
(Old Spike)
if your dad had taken some responsibility, your life you would be completly different. you wouldn't have been arrested so many times and you wouldn't have less than your parents did at this age. the people you hang around would be different. you wouldnt have a kid with the one you do. daddy fucked up generations to come
(Old Spike)
Well, if you look into Sal's comment, he mentioned drunk driving, I just pointed out to him that this kind of thing does not seem to be a good example when "conversing" with the village idiot.
Then you decided to reply in your usual brainless fashion and I just quoted yourself back to you, snowflake, in case you forgot. So if anyone insulted you it is yourself actually.
Boy, is this hillarious.
(sounds retarded)
Civil is a different ball game, Im all for it.
I have said this before, I want parents to be held accountable for their spawns. But I dont want an arbitrary application of laws. Its a slippery slope. If you want to charge parents then pass a law for it. Dont skirt around laws and apply them based on emotions. Ignorance of the law does have its limits, you have to be charged with a law that actually applies and is not ambiguous, otherwise it is unconstitutional. There has to be clear cut lines in the sand that are defined. I dont know what law could be made or how to apply it, thats what we pay people for. Do you want to see parents being made to put their kids in mental hospitals becuase they MIGHT be psycho enough to shoot up a school? I'd bet a lot of people would have problems with that. Where does it end and when should it start? What if the kid used a knife? Should parents be charged? What if the kid used the parents car? How about a fight in school/ Your kid harmed another kid, should the parents be charged? I feel like Im arguing with a bunch of five yr olds! Whats next, "I know you are but what am I?". FFS use some critical thinking skills!
(Old Spike)
If a notice on a piece of software or medicine can be used in law why not any other notice?
Adverse effects of medicines are displayed in case it happens so you have no case, you were notified, the notice itself is not legal binding, but there must be something in the law otherwise gun stores would not have the notices
(sounds retarded)
Thats for civil matters not criminal.
(Long Spike)
they are irresponsible