Why was he there in the first place, the "THINK FOR MYSELFERS" (that of course have little to none formal education but a rather big mouth to compensate for it) seem to be everywhere talking about subjects that require specific qualifications and in depth studies in the field.
Makes me feel glad that my time on this planet is limited to maybe another 10-15 years.
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
So you can't think for yourself if a 16 year old is mentally fit to choose to do a sex change?
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
I have my own opinion about it. I also have my own opinion about this guy and his motivation.
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Bobbob (Site Administrator)
I see your point about Walsh in particular Daft but he's not being asked these questions by people more qualified than him to answer. By leaving them speechless, he rather successfully (here at least) makes the point that some of this falls under the category of common sense. Remember, we're talking about the absurdity and showmanship of modern day politics here. These guys asking the questions are hoping for a soundbite for their political reel. In this case in the US, where a Supreme Court Nominee was allowed to answer the question 'What is a woman?' with 'I'm not a biologist.' You don't need special qualifications to answer some questions.
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
Exactly. This should be common sense and they are trying to turn it into something that only an expert can answer.
Of course, there are always the extreme exceptions and those should be dealt with by experts, but what this guy is really against is normalizing this shit.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Both of you actually make my point.
"Transgender" is a recognised condition only found in a small (but still significant enough for the need to create legislation for it) part of the population, thus experts (biologists, psychologists etc.) in the field should answer to lawmakers questions, NOT "common sense boy has penis, girl has verginer" advocates (or more simply put: transphobes).
Simple as that.
Science is often not a "common sense" thing, especially if the "common sense" is based on prejudice and phobia. This is why so many like what this guy has to say but snuff at experts' opinions. It is like an extreme form of confirmation bias where the opinion of not even remotely qualified "bloggers", "journalists" or other "celebrity loudmouths" (like the guy in the video) has more value than that of experts.
The same goes for other topics like climate change, vaccines, brexit etc. etc.
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
Ok, Lets put it this way.
It's common sense that:
16 year olds are still kids. Their attitudes and emotion can change on a whim. At this age they can be highly impressionable. They get into things their friends do or might easily get sucked into whatever they find on the internet. Most of them are literally still trying to find themselves.
Maybe to get some perspective watch his documentary: What is a woman?
There you can see what kind of "experts" they have in this field. He's a big troll throughout, but gets across the absurdity of this million genders thing.
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sal9000 (Old Spike)
you forgot what its like to be a 16 year old, highly impressionable with emotions that change on a whim. you got a tattoo or a piercing. that's what you did.
when i was 16 and the same probably holds true for most of us here. no amount of indoctrination could have gotten me to turn gay or could get me to start thinking that i was born into the wrong body. that i should have been born with a vagina and breasts
i think the biggest problem is that people treat kids like idiots so they think they're idiots. the amount of time that goes into thinking of getting a sex change is small compared to the amount of time someone has spent feeling "not right" with the biology they were born with.
i want a documentary called What is a midget? its should be about banning growth hormones and leg lengthening surgeries. but the whole concept behind it is nuts. i could ask you what a man is and that will just lead to questions of wether or not a biological male born with a vagina is a man or if a biological male born with no penis or genitals is a man. the y chromosome doesn't make you a man
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
"when i was 16 and the same probably holds true for most of us here. no amount of indoctrination could have gotten me to turn gay or could get me to start thinking that i was born into the wrong body. that i should have been born with a vagina and breasts"
And this hold true for 99% of the kids these days (pulling those numbers outta my ass). That leaves the 1% that are super insecure about their identity, have mental issues, have been abused or what ever.
And yeah, kids can be sucked into all kind of "memes".
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sal9000 (Old Spike)
if it was mental illness, we'd have medication for it. its not a mental illness because we've always had them. its just operations were never available and society wasn't as accepting of them
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
I'm not saying being trans is a mental illness, I'm saying those that are mentally ill, might get the idea that they are in the wrong body when this is being pushed around the net. It's fashionable being gender fluid or whatever they fuck it is. Doesn't even have to be mentally ill, just young and dumb, impressionable kids that are looking for answers for why they feel "off".
I've seen these whims with my kids. For 1½ years they were the biggest fans of some weird boy band. Everything in their lives evolved around that band. I fucking took them to several gigs around the country to see them.
Then in a matter of weeks, it just stopped for no apparent reason and they hated the band. They don't even know what they wanted, just went with what their friends were into.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Further to Sal's reply I would like to add that this is exactly the reason why we need experts (not bloggers etc) to sift the "not real" transgenders out, if we want to set an age for "conversion", I wouldn't actually but rather do each case on evaluation until they are of adult age (this is my personal opinion) as the "adultness" in teenager fluctuates too much.
Like "being gay" "being trans" is not something one chooses, it is something one is, this cannot be compared to following one boyband and then another. So it is extremely unlikely that someone wants to fully transition backwards and forwards, but of course not impossible. It is also possible that some will regret their decision.
This regulation will NOT suddenly create a "boom of trans" btw.
What gets me is that the the topic (similar to that about abortions) is so close to the heart of people it actually does not affect, i.e. predominantly straight, mostly religious middle aged people.
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
Heres one "expert" that he interviewed. "Medical transition will start when the patient says their ready"
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
there seems to be no attachment? And when else would you actually expect the process to start?
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
After months of evaluation by multiple healthcare professionals that have their heads straight and don't subscribe to these lofty ideas. Even then, I'd push it till they are of age and more mature.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Now the video works. So this is the same twat of the original video, that has -according to himself- no formal education at all (which he of course compensates with his political agenda, and the fanboys, also of course, don't care as long as he feeds their bias), can read and write though (and of course babble, like a champ) and has "common sense". Yeah, sign me up!
*insert favourite facepalm meme/gif here* I am too lazy to search for one.
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
So no comment about the blue haired ladys ideas on the ACTUAL SUBJECT at hand?
Well I guess when you slap the "expert" label on someone, all you can do is comply with the idea she presents.
What about when there are experts on both sides of the argument? (the guy interviewed them too). Who do you listen to then, or will your head just implode facing the idea that you have to make your own call.
Now if instead of 'gender' you are referring to 'gender expression', then by all means say male, female, apache attack helicopter, whatever you like. Just please don't obfuscate the two terms. The word 'gender' means sex. Society isn't obligated to give you that word. It's a clear enough concept. It worked for caveman-grandpa-daftcunt the first time he spotted cavewoman-grandma-daftcunt bent over the creek (doing the laundry probably). A clear cut distinction between the sexes.
Besides, as a logical argument, making gender terms too fluid means a legitimate trans person can't point to the opposite gender (or sex) and say 'that's the real me. I want to be that.'
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sal9000 (Old Spike)
gender terms have always been fluid. you got biological sex and gender. gender is something we made up, we've associated certain behaviors to them, influenced and enforced those behaviors. sex is you're born with either a penis, a vagina or some variation of hermaphrodite. everything else is a construct of our creation. everything about you other than your penis can be constituted as gender expression. nothing about how you act, or what you like or what you do makes you a man because biologically females have been doing the exact same since the dawn of man and some have been doing it better. same goes the other way
a trans person doesn't point at the opposite sex and say "that's the real me, i want to be that.", they say "i should have been that, that's the real me."
stop acting like cavewomen weren't hunters
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Bobbob (Site Administrator)
'gender terms have always been fluid. you got biological sex and gender. gender is something we made up, we've associated certain behaviors to them, influenced and enforced those behaviors.' No. Not always. Most of us have birth certificates that still clearly say 'Gender: M' or 'Gender: F'. You pluck Mariam Webter's New Collegiate Dictionary from exactly 50yrs ago off dad or grand-dad's shelf (ed. 1973 - I shit you not) and it says:
Gender. French. MF. genre, gendre. fr. L. Gener-, genus birth, race, kind, gender - more a KIN]. 1. SEX <black divinities of the feminine - Charles Dickens> 2 a.: a subclass within a grammatical class (as noun, pronoun, adjective, or verb) of a language that is partly arbitrary but also partly based on distinguishable characteristics (as shape, social rank, manner of existence, or sex) and that determines agreement with and selection of other words or grammatical forms.'
I appreciate you bringing this perspective, but please don't use terms like 'always been' when describing the recent takeover of the language online and in blogs or whatever. Without taking away from the right of trans people to exist and pursue a life of fulfillment, if all we're debating in the end is people's right to be called what we want to be called, I want to be called one of the people who understands the difference between 'gender' and 'gender expression'. Can we try to respect that too please.
Also; where you write 'stop acting like cavewomen weren't hunters'..
While there will always be exceptions, by and large, they weren't though. This is even evidenced in the archeological record; with the trinkets/items primitive males were buried with vs females, for use in the afterlife. It's a part of our oldest historical record. Sorry if it doesn't line up with the latest Disney or Pixar movie or whatever.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Has no more arguments on the topic, tries to divert by blaming idiotic woke terminology, now why doesn't this surprise me? Because you always do this, , don't you.
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Bobbob (Site Administrator)
What arguments were you hoping for, dog?
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
something that has remotely to do with the topic, bud......
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Bobbob (Site Administrator)
Enlighten us, chum. Asked and answered above.
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sal9000 (Old Spike)
well lola, your birth certificate and the 1973 edition of the dictionary are dated to a specific time in our history. i'm sure that books got some definitions of words you wouldn't stand by. go back a few more editions and shit gets really awkward reading them to people of colour.
we're almost middle aged, were half way done our lives. you might not feel obligated to give people a word. but they're not obligated to live by your standards. just to drive it home, we're half way through our lives and these people you don't want to give a word to are just starting theirs
what you call an exception is a misconception. the thing about archeology is that we haven't stopped digging. they've found females with hunting equipment in the americas. they think something like 30-50% of females were big game hunters. when you think of it. it doesn't make sense not to teach half the population a survival skill
life like a ride at disney land. you can get off but its going to continue on afterwards
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Bobbob (Site Administrator)
Not true. I dream of a world where everyone gets along. The day where a tranny comes to our neighborhood school to read Tom Sawyer to the kids. Hypocrite.
Paragraphe 2. Well, 0.001% of people will agree for sure. Wait no, probably double that.
Paragraph 3. You still cite the exception as the rule. Hunting parties would have been predominantly led by and comprised of men, not only for the strength and stamina required, but also due to the risk. You've seen how modern-day primitive villages worked right up to present day, right?
Paragraph 4. Are you sure? Now that they're forced to pay taxes in Florida, Disney may stop sooner than you think.
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theblackswordsman (Old Spike)
Only an idiot would accept "Science" from an "expert" that says men can become women.
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sal9000 (Old Spike)
if you think about it. most of us a white. we're white because our parents are white. their parents are white which goes back hundreds of generations. if you decide to have a kid with an asian. what are the odds that you're super insecure about your identity, have mental issues, have been abused or what ever vs having options your forefathers didnt?
also if anyones forgetting, matt walsh also has a video from a while ago. think its called some thing What's the age of consent? if i remember correctly, it was a "old enough to bleed, old enough to breed" kind of talk
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Bobbob (Site Administrator)
Be nice. He addressed that in the video above. Would still like to find a clip so we can hear for ourselves though.
Comments
(Site Administrator)
Well, that was entertaining to say the least.
(Old Spike)
Why was he there in the first place, the "THINK FOR MYSELFERS" (that of course have little to none formal education but a rather big mouth to compensate for it) seem to be everywhere talking about subjects that require specific qualifications and in depth studies in the field.
Makes me feel glad that my time on this planet is limited to maybe another 10-15 years.
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
So you can't think for yourself if a 16 year old is mentally fit to choose to do a sex change?
(Old Spike)
I have my own opinion about it. I also have my own opinion about this guy and his motivation.
(Site Administrator)
I see your point about Walsh in particular Daft but he's not being asked these questions by people more qualified than him to answer. By leaving them speechless, he rather successfully (here at least) makes the point that some of this falls under the category of common sense. Remember, we're talking about the absurdity and showmanship of modern day politics here. These guys asking the questions are hoping for a soundbite for their political reel. In this case in the US, where a Supreme Court Nominee was allowed to answer the question 'What is a woman?' with 'I'm not a biologist.' You don't need special qualifications to answer some questions.
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
Exactly. This should be common sense and they are trying to turn it into something that only an expert can answer.
Of course, there are always the extreme exceptions and those should be dealt with by experts, but what this guy is really against is normalizing this shit.
(Old Spike)
Both of you actually make my point.
"Transgender" is a recognised condition only found in a small (but still significant enough for the need to create legislation for it) part of the population, thus experts (biologists, psychologists etc.) in the field should answer to lawmakers questions, NOT "common sense boy has penis, girl has verginer" advocates (or more simply put: transphobes).
Simple as that.
Science is often not a "common sense" thing, especially if the "common sense" is based on prejudice and phobia. This is why so many like what this guy has to say but snuff at experts' opinions. It is like an extreme form of confirmation bias where the opinion of not even remotely qualified "bloggers", "journalists" or other "celebrity loudmouths" (like the guy in the video) has more value than that of experts.
The same goes for other topics like climate change, vaccines, brexit etc. etc.
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
Ok, Lets put it this way.
It's common sense that:
16 year olds are still kids. Their attitudes and emotion can change on a whim. At this age they can be highly impressionable. They get into things their friends do or might easily get sucked into whatever they find on the internet. Most of them are literally still trying to find themselves.
Maybe to get some perspective watch his documentary: What is a woman?
There you can see what kind of "experts" they have in this field. He's a big troll throughout, but gets across the absurdity of this million genders thing.
(Old Spike)
you forgot what its like to be a 16 year old, highly impressionable with emotions that change on a whim. you got a tattoo or a piercing. that's what you did.
when i was 16 and the same probably holds true for most of us here. no amount of indoctrination could have gotten me to turn gay or could get me to start thinking that i was born into the wrong body. that i should have been born with a vagina and breasts
i think the biggest problem is that people treat kids like idiots so they think they're idiots. the amount of time that goes into thinking of getting a sex change is small compared to the amount of time someone has spent feeling "not right" with the biology they were born with.
i want a documentary called What is a midget? its should be about banning growth hormones and leg lengthening surgeries. but the whole concept behind it is nuts. i could ask you what a man is and that will just lead to questions of wether or not a biological male born with a vagina is a man or if a biological male born with no penis or genitals is a man. the y chromosome doesn't make you a man
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
"when i was 16 and the same probably holds true for most of us here. no amount of indoctrination could have gotten me to turn gay or could get me to start thinking that i was born into the wrong body. that i should have been born with a vagina and breasts"
And this hold true for 99% of the kids these days (pulling those numbers outta my ass). That leaves the 1% that are super insecure about their identity, have mental issues, have been abused or what ever.
And yeah, kids can be sucked into all kind of "memes".
(Old Spike)
if it was mental illness, we'd have medication for it. its not a mental illness because we've always had them. its just operations were never available and society wasn't as accepting of them
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
I'm not saying being trans is a mental illness, I'm saying those that are mentally ill, might get the idea that they are in the wrong body when this is being pushed around the net. It's fashionable being gender fluid or whatever they fuck it is. Doesn't even have to be mentally ill, just young and dumb, impressionable kids that are looking for answers for why they feel "off".
I've seen these whims with my kids. For 1½ years they were the biggest fans of some weird boy band. Everything in their lives evolved around that band. I fucking took them to several gigs around the country to see them.
Then in a matter of weeks, it just stopped for no apparent reason and they hated the band. They don't even know what they wanted, just went with what their friends were into.
(Old Spike)
Further to Sal's reply I would like to add that this is exactly the reason why we need experts (not bloggers etc) to sift the "not real" transgenders out, if we want to set an age for "conversion", I wouldn't actually but rather do each case on evaluation until they are of adult age (this is my personal opinion) as the "adultness" in teenager fluctuates too much.
Like "being gay" "being trans" is not something one chooses, it is something one is, this cannot be compared to following one boyband and then another. So it is extremely unlikely that someone wants to fully transition backwards and forwards, but of course not impossible. It is also possible that some will regret their decision.
This regulation will NOT suddenly create a "boom of trans" btw.
What gets me is that the the topic (similar to that about abortions) is so close to the heart of people it actually does not affect, i.e. predominantly straight, mostly religious middle aged people.
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
Heres one "expert" that he interviewed. "Medical transition will start when the patient says their ready"
(Old Spike)
there seems to be no attachment? And when else would you actually expect the process to start?
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
After months of evaluation by multiple healthcare professionals that have their heads straight and don't subscribe to these lofty ideas. Even then, I'd push it till they are of age and more mature.
(Old Spike)
Now the video works. So this is the same twat of the original video, that has -according to himself- no formal education at all (which he of course compensates with his political agenda, and the fanboys, also of course, don't care as long as he feeds their bias), can read and write though (and of course babble, like a champ) and has "common sense". Yeah, sign me up!
*insert favourite facepalm meme/gif here* I am too lazy to search for one.
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
So no comment about the blue haired ladys ideas on the ACTUAL SUBJECT at hand?
Well I guess when you slap the "expert" label on someone, all you can do is comply with the idea she presents.
What about when there are experts on both sides of the argument? (the guy interviewed them too). Who do you listen to then, or will your head just implode facing the idea that you have to make your own call.
(Site Administrator)
Adult (ie. mature) female human. Bobbob. Biologist.
Now if instead of 'gender' you are referring to 'gender expression', then by all means say male, female, apache attack helicopter, whatever you like. Just please don't obfuscate the two terms. The word 'gender' means sex. Society isn't obligated to give you that word. It's a clear enough concept. It worked for caveman-grandpa-daftcunt the first time he spotted cavewoman-grandma-daftcunt bent over the creek (doing the laundry probably). A clear cut distinction between the sexes.
Besides, as a logical argument, making gender terms too fluid means a legitimate trans person can't point to the opposite gender (or sex) and say 'that's the real me. I want to be that.'
(Old Spike)
gender terms have always been fluid. you got biological sex and gender. gender is something we made up, we've associated certain behaviors to them, influenced and enforced those behaviors. sex is you're born with either a penis, a vagina or some variation of hermaphrodite. everything else is a construct of our creation. everything about you other than your penis can be constituted as gender expression. nothing about how you act, or what you like or what you do makes you a man because biologically females have been doing the exact same since the dawn of man and some have been doing it better. same goes the other way
a trans person doesn't point at the opposite sex and say "that's the real me, i want to be that.", they say "i should have been that, that's the real me."
stop acting like cavewomen weren't hunters
(Site Administrator)
'gender terms have always been fluid. you got biological sex and gender. gender is something we made up, we've associated certain behaviors to them, influenced and enforced those behaviors.' No. Not always. Most of us have birth certificates that still clearly say 'Gender: M' or 'Gender: F'. You pluck Mariam Webter's New Collegiate Dictionary from exactly 50yrs ago off dad or grand-dad's shelf (ed. 1973 - I shit you not) and it says:
Gender. French. MF. genre, gendre. fr. L. Gener-, genus birth, race, kind, gender - more a KIN]. 1. SEX <black divinities of the feminine - Charles Dickens> 2 a.: a subclass within a grammatical class (as noun, pronoun, adjective, or verb) of a language that is partly arbitrary but also partly based on distinguishable characteristics (as shape, social rank, manner of existence, or sex) and that determines agreement with and selection of other words or grammatical forms.'
I appreciate you bringing this perspective, but please don't use terms like 'always been' when describing the recent takeover of the language online and in blogs or whatever. Without taking away from the right of trans people to exist and pursue a life of fulfillment, if all we're debating in the end is people's right to be called what we want to be called, I want to be called one of the people who understands the difference between 'gender' and 'gender expression'. Can we try to respect that too please.
Also; where you write 'stop acting like cavewomen weren't hunters'..
While there will always be exceptions, by and large, they weren't though. This is even evidenced in the archeological record; with the trinkets/items primitive males were buried with vs females, for use in the afterlife. It's a part of our oldest historical record. Sorry if it doesn't line up with the latest Disney or Pixar movie or whatever.
(Old Spike)
Has no more arguments on the topic, tries to divert by blaming idiotic woke terminology, now why doesn't this surprise me? Because you always do this,
, don't you.
(Site Administrator)
What arguments were you hoping for, dog?
(Old Spike)
something that has remotely to do with the topic, bud......
(Site Administrator)
Enlighten us, chum. Asked and answered above.
(Old Spike)
well lola, your birth certificate and the 1973 edition of the dictionary are dated to a specific time in our history. i'm sure that books got some definitions of words you wouldn't stand by. go back a few more editions and shit gets really awkward reading them to people of colour.
we're almost middle aged, were half way done our lives. you might not feel obligated to give people a word. but they're not obligated to live by your standards. just to drive it home, we're half way through our lives and these people you don't want to give a word to are just starting theirs
what you call an exception is a misconception. the thing about archeology is that we haven't stopped digging. they've found females with hunting equipment in the americas. they think something like 30-50% of females were big game hunters. when you think of it. it doesn't make sense not to teach half the population a survival skill
life like a ride at disney land. you can get off but its going to continue on afterwards
(Site Administrator)
Not true. I dream of a world where everyone gets along. The day where a tranny comes to our neighborhood school to read Tom Sawyer to the kids. Hypocrite.
Paragraphe 2. Well, 0.001% of people will agree for sure. Wait no, probably double that.
Paragraph 3. You still cite the exception as the rule. Hunting parties would have been predominantly led by and comprised of men, not only for the strength and stamina required, but also due to the risk. You've seen how modern-day primitive villages worked right up to present day, right?
Paragraph 4. Are you sure? Now that they're forced to pay taxes in Florida, Disney may stop sooner than you think.
(Old Spike)
Only an idiot would accept "Science" from an "expert" that says men can become women.
(Old Spike)
if you think about it. most of us a white. we're white because our parents are white. their parents are white which goes back hundreds of generations. if you decide to have a kid with an asian. what are the odds that you're super insecure about your identity, have mental issues, have been abused or what ever vs having options your forefathers didnt?
also if anyones forgetting, matt walsh also has a video from a while ago. think its called some thing What's the age of consent? if i remember correctly, it was a "old enough to bleed, old enough to breed" kind of talk
(Site Administrator)
Be nice. He addressed that in the video above. Would still like to find a clip so we can hear for ourselves though.