Glad they balanced the feedback out as it was a pretty brutal start. But I bet a lot of that was for dramatic effect by Bloomberg. I do find it amazing how short sighted people are with Tesla and many groups doing innovation. Sure Tesla's body design is bad but it could also be the easiest thing to solve as every other car manufacture has nailed it. Plus, like Tesla style I am sure they are aiming to innovate beyond what every other car manufactures is doing today. Single piece bodies?
I'm really curious to see what happens when they bring out an electric truck and tackle the #1 vehicle segment in USA. Watch out Ford!
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Tesla's problem is that they (had to?) decided to go on their own.
I can't see a viable solution for a truck, though. unless it is some kind of fuel cell design, at least at the moment the energy density of batteries is too low for the application. They would have to introduce a network of battery changing stations as it was proposed by Renault a while back.
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GKhan (Old Spike)
They didn't do it on their own, they started with the Lotus body and frame, which Musk says was their biggest mistake because they kept try to band-aid everything onto the wrong frame. And if they would've partnered with one of the big vendors, it would have never happened. The lack of disruptive innovation from the big manufactures is incredible, Ghosn (Nissan) was the only one who got it and put serious coin ($5B) behind an all electric car factory.
Battery density and network (at least in the US) is already quite high. Plus people can install their own high charging areas. Maybe not all applications for a truck but even with current tech, I wouldn't be surprised if 30-50% of truck applications could be replaced with electric. The biggest issue is simply price, which is coming down fast. But pick-up trucks are dirt cheap, $30K. You probably need an extra $20K just for the batteries. And if not yet, wait 5 years. It's just a matter of time.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
What I meant by partnering up was using existing expertise in design to produce a "manufacturing friendly" car, not use something that is by default somewhat incompatible with the technology.
There are some minivans available for example from Renault and Nissan, however they only make sense in a city or other limited space environment as the range is about 175-250km, and that would be the car unloaded and no A/C etc. Even for Mallorca I would not consider this (maybe from 25km but I would have to thoroughly test it). Also they are double the price of a normal van and you have to lease the batteries on top of that.
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GKhan (Old Spike)
Ah, I understand. Well on the plus side, it's sound like this may be some low hanging fruit. Though, if it's so easy, curious why they didn't do it already... Will be interesting to see what the Model 3 tear down looks like in 2-3 years...
I hear you on that minivan, just sounds too limited. 175-250km minus keeping a charge within 20%-80% to maintain battery life really reduces the km. Add on having to worry about how much A/C one is using or how much weight is in the vehicle justs makes it more of a unpredictable experience. These are utility vehicles that need to be reliable.
One big plus about Tesla over other car manufacturer though is that they have figured out the battery operation/maintenance. Some Tesla's have over 250,000+ miles on them and still have 90% battery. Nissan had a bunch of batteries die in Arizona as they got too hot. I worry about battery life time the most as it is such a huge part of the cost and the experience. If one is getting 200km minus keeping charge between 20-80% (40%) minus A/C (15%) minus weight (10%), the battery is down to 45%ish with a viable distance of 90km. Loose 20% battery life in 2 years and your down to 70km... which would be 45 mins on the highway... ugh...
Comments
(Old Spike)
Glad they balanced the feedback out as it was a pretty brutal start. But I bet a lot of that was for dramatic effect by Bloomberg. I do find it amazing how short sighted people are with Tesla and many groups doing innovation. Sure Tesla's body design is bad but it could also be the easiest thing to solve as every other car manufacture has nailed it. Plus, like Tesla style I am sure they are aiming to innovate beyond what every other car manufactures is doing today. Single piece bodies?
And as for Tesla could've taken the market had they made the body better... uh, they've taken the market this last quarter. https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/21/18-nasty-tesla-charts/
I'm really curious to see what happens when they bring out an electric truck and tackle the #1 vehicle segment in USA. Watch out Ford!
(Old Spike)
Tesla's problem is that they (had to?) decided to go on their own.
I can't see a viable solution for a truck, though. unless it is some kind of fuel cell design, at least at the moment the energy density of batteries is too low for the application. They would have to introduce a network of battery changing stations as it was proposed by Renault a while back.
(Old Spike)
They didn't do it on their own, they started with the Lotus body and frame, which Musk says was their biggest mistake because they kept try to band-aid everything onto the wrong frame. And if they would've partnered with one of the big vendors, it would have never happened. The lack of disruptive innovation from the big manufactures is incredible, Ghosn (Nissan) was the only one who got it and put serious coin ($5B) behind an all electric car factory.
Battery density and network (at least in the US) is already quite high. Plus people can install their own high charging areas. Maybe not all applications for a truck but even with current tech, I wouldn't be surprised if 30-50% of truck applications could be replaced with electric. The biggest issue is simply price, which is coming down fast. But pick-up trucks are dirt cheap, $30K. You probably need an extra $20K just for the batteries. And if not yet, wait 5 years. It's just a matter of time.
(Old Spike)
What I meant by partnering up was using existing expertise in design to produce a "manufacturing friendly" car, not use something that is by default somewhat incompatible with the technology.
There are some minivans available for example from Renault and Nissan, however they only make sense in a city or other limited space environment as the range is about 175-250km, and that would be the car unloaded and no A/C etc. Even for Mallorca I would not consider this (maybe from 25km but I would have to thoroughly test it). Also they are double the price of a normal van and you have to lease the batteries on top of that.
(Old Spike)
Ah, I understand. Well on the plus side, it's sound like this may be some low hanging fruit. Though, if it's so easy, curious why they didn't do it already... Will be interesting to see what the Model 3 tear down looks like in 2-3 years...
I hear you on that minivan, just sounds too limited. 175-250km minus keeping a charge within 20%-80% to maintain battery life really reduces the km. Add on having to worry about how much A/C one is using or how much weight is in the vehicle justs makes it more of a unpredictable experience. These are utility vehicles that need to be reliable.
One big plus about Tesla over other car manufacturer though is that they have figured out the battery operation/maintenance. Some Tesla's have over 250,000+ miles on them and still have 90% battery. Nissan had a bunch of batteries die in Arizona as they got too hot. I worry about battery life time the most as it is such a huge part of the cost and the experience. If one is getting 200km minus keeping charge between 20-80% (40%) minus A/C (15%) minus weight (10%), the battery is down to 45%ish with a viable distance of 90km. Loose 20% battery life in 2 years and your down to 70km... which would be 45 mins on the highway... ugh...