Can't wait to see a rocket blow up right as it exits the launch system. Anyway, what's the stock ticker for this pump?
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
well, in contrary to other "projects" they seem to build something that at least resembles what they aim for. What do they actually want to launch with this thing? at 10000g it can't be anything delicate.... Skipped through the video, what did hey say was the total mass they could launch?
We'll have to wait and see whether or not this "silly".
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
We'll have to wait and see whether or not this "silly".
You mean wait and see if thunderfoot posts a video about it?
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n0val33t (Old Spike)
I don't have an issue with that! ...... why would anyone?
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
. why would anyone?"
Because some don't understand that dreaming and science in general don't mix.
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
Yeah, I'm sure we could find someone more credible for that.
Thunderfoot whole persona revolves around debunking and being able to say "I told you so".
That doesn't mean he can't be right, but a lot of the time he comes like an immature teenager motivated by angst.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
You're just pissed that he is right most of the time, lol. Unfortunately it appears people like him are needed because the contributions promoting bullshit get way more attention than thos debunking it. I am not a fan of his presentation neither.
Try a new approach that probably never has been done before:
Don't like the way he is presenting? Don't watch his videos.
You seem to have a general "problem" with debunkers (like thunderf00t or potholer53) if they tell you what you don't want to hear it seems and thus use the term in a fashion that it makes it look like they do something wrong or insincere when actually the opposite is the case, even if they get things wrong (unless they then don't admit to it).
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sato (Old Spike)
thunderfoot right? since when? and potholer is in a completely different league. potholer actually explains what exactly is wrong with a purported product or design, while thunderfoot's "debunks" are just him being incredulous - "this is so stupid of course it's not going to work." one that comes to mind is he always brings up the vaccuum fallacy addressed directly in this video. the insistence that a full-space vaccuum such as that used by nasa is the only possible vaccuum and it's too expensive so there debunked. thunderfoot has debunked a few pretty obvious gofundme scams, but has he every successfully debunked anything that has proper corporate backers? he "debunked" starlink which works just fine, he went after hyperloops which the jury is still out on since they're in prototype phase, he's done spinlaunch which has successfully tested prototypes. i mean when he's got a point like the thing that was supposed to condense a full bottle full of water from the air in a day then sure, but usually he doesn't have anything specific in his debunks, and often just outright mistakes like not understanding that there are different levels of vaccuum.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
"...the vaccuum fallacy ..." Nope, he explained this on the hyperloop case with the actual pressures from the project. He even had a small scale application.
The man worked with vacuums all his professional life, he surely understands more about it than you or me.
The only vacuum fallacy exists in the heads of the musktards.
".......since they're in prototype phase...." No, they are not! Not even close, what they built is a tiny mock up. They are more in a bankrupcy phase or quickly approaching it.If I remember corerectly they let go most of their staff.
With starlink it was more of a usefulness/viability rather than a "doesn't work" issue.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
lol He has already. But then it was in the simulation stage and the vacuum was held back by a paper thin sheeting, which was penetrated and destroyed by the rocket, an outright ridiculous design, which should be clear even to a layman.
Now I am just a humble engineer but I am really skeptical how they will get the "door system" to work:
The outer one has to open against 1 bar-ish of pressure (they said they want 0,01mbar inside, which is neglegible for this force calculation), which means, if the door would measure a metre by a metre (i.e. 1sqm) you would have 100kN-ish force to overcome to open it, this is 10 tons plus the weight of the door but again that would be negligible in the calculation.
Similarily for the door that slams shut, pushed by almost 1 bar of pressure (did they mention how much pressure they intend to lose during a launch?), let's say 0,8 bar remain so that would be 8 tons of a relatively heavy (say at least 300-400kg) door slamming shut on a probably very sensitive vacuum seal. And all this several times a day?
well yeah, probably not.
And what kind of sensitive satellite equipment is meant to withstand 10000g of force? I could see a military application, though.
And lastly, yes, the poster actually did forget to try to understand what vacuum "means", same as in his rather silly hyperloop defenses. I believe the vacuum they would need for either application is pretty much the same. And even if this would be out by an order of magnitude it would not matter.
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
So it seem. It says "Busted" on the thumbnail so what more do we need?
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Well, rather than being condescending now why not wait what becomes of it..... I see you did not address any of the technical arguments I made, but that is not important, now is it.
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backdraft (Site Moderator)
Thats exactly what I'm doing, waiting what comes of it. I'm not an engineer so I don't know and can't really comment on it. My assumption is just that these are fairly smart people working on it and if they haven't overlooked something huge, they might have a shot. Theres a lot of unknows that they don't yet know, and most certainly Thunderfoot doesn't know. Thats kind of the point, to test and iterate to see if it will work. You were curious about the door but said you didn't even bother to watch the whole video, just skipped around. Would think this would interest a fellow engineer, especially if your critical of it working.
What Thunderfoot here is doing, is condescending. He can't utter a sentence with out sounding condescending. I'm not bothered if he is right (he is right about a lot of things as far as I know), but just can't stand his attitude. Simply put he sounds immature man motivated by the "I told you so" ego boost. I get it, that attracts a certain kind of audience and that's why he has a big following. I guess thats why the guy has such a huge hate boner towards Elon because he actually built a space company against all odds. Even the most optimistic guys wouldn't have thought it would materialize into something.
I have more respect towards Potholer, even though he does have some of the same traits, but at least he acts like a grown-up.
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sato (Old Spike)
his point is the way something seems doesn't mean the way soemthing is.
as for the mylar film, that's their prototype. thunderfoot always makes that same logical fallacy, that a prototype must be identical to the end product. the prototype used a mylar film to hold the vaccuum, while they work on the airlock design that has multiple doors. it would only be ridiculous if it was their final design, which it isn't.
the door is carbon fiber composite, in the order of 10kg, not 300. there's a demo run of the actual door at 18:00. it already works against the atmospheric and vaccuum pressures they're going for, the last step is the timing.
the vaccuum is not "out by an order of magnitude", it's out by a billion orders of magnitude, which does matter. the difference between 1x10 -2 pa and 1x10 -11 pa is absolutely astronomical.
as for the sensitive equipment at high-G, they've already tested all kinds of equipment on it and it's fine. they even test a normal camera in the video at 39:30.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
"the difference between 1x10 -2 pa and 1x10 -11 pa is absolutely astronomical."
Only in the pumping effort (which I did not refer to as the pressure problems are the same as with the hyperloop only on a smaller scale), not in the pressure difference to the outside world and thus the forces on the equipment. It is still give or take one bar, so the order of magnitude difference is negligible.
In the demo of the door I only saw it vibrating a lot when closing, I did not hear them mention the pressure they applied. I doubt they can manufacture the door weighing 10kg (but I am not a carbon fibre/composite expert), in any case this only matters when it slams shut and is negligible when the door opens.
I have seen the cameratest, I don't think it has any moving components in it.
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Benign Individual (Old Spike)
Looks feasable. The doors on the vacuum retention mechanism seem like they would have high turn over however.
Comments
(Old Spike)
Can't wait to see a rocket blow up right as it exits the launch system. Anyway, what's the stock ticker for this pump?
(Old Spike)
well, in contrary to other "projects" they seem to build something that at least resembles what they aim for. What do they actually want to launch with this thing? at 10000g it can't be anything delicate.... Skipped through the video, what did hey say was the total mass they could launch?
We'll have to wait and see whether or not this "silly".
(Site Moderator)
We'll have to wait and see whether or not this "silly".
You mean wait and see if thunderfoot posts a video about it?
(Old Spike)
I don't have an issue with that! ...... why would anyone?
(Old Spike)
. why would anyone?"
Because some don't understand that dreaming and science in general don't mix.
(Site Moderator)
Yeah, I'm sure we could find someone more credible for that.
Thunderfoot whole persona revolves around debunking and being able to say "I told you so".
That doesn't mean he can't be right, but a lot of the time he comes like an immature teenager motivated by angst.
(Old Spike)
You're just pissed that he is right most of the time, lol. Unfortunately it appears people like him are needed because the contributions promoting bullshit get way more attention than thos debunking it. I am not a fan of his presentation neither.
Try a new approach that probably never has been done before:
Don't like the way he is presenting? Don't watch his videos.
You seem to have a general "problem" with debunkers (like thunderf00t or potholer53) if they tell you what you don't want to hear it seems and thus use the term in a fashion that it makes it look like they do something wrong or insincere when actually the opposite is the case, even if they get things wrong (unless they then don't admit to it).
(Old Spike)
thunderfoot right? since when? and potholer is in a completely different league. potholer actually explains what exactly is wrong with a purported product or design, while thunderfoot's "debunks" are just him being incredulous - "this is so stupid of course it's not going to work." one that comes to mind is he always brings up the vaccuum fallacy addressed directly in this video. the insistence that a full-space vaccuum such as that used by nasa is the only possible vaccuum and it's too expensive so there debunked. thunderfoot has debunked a few pretty obvious gofundme scams, but has he every successfully debunked anything that has proper corporate backers? he "debunked" starlink which works just fine, he went after hyperloops which the jury is still out on since they're in prototype phase, he's done spinlaunch which has successfully tested prototypes. i mean when he's got a point like the thing that was supposed to condense a full bottle full of water from the air in a day then sure, but usually he doesn't have anything specific in his debunks, and often just outright mistakes like not understanding that there are different levels of vaccuum.
(Old Spike)
"...the vaccuum fallacy ..." Nope, he explained this on the hyperloop case with the actual pressures from the project. He even had a small scale application.
The man worked with vacuums all his professional life, he surely understands more about it than you or me.
The only vacuum fallacy exists in the heads of the musktards.
".......since they're in prototype phase...." No, they are not! Not even close, what they built is a tiny mock up. They are more in a bankrupcy phase or quickly approaching it.If I remember corerectly they let go most of their staff.
With starlink it was more of a usefulness/viability rather than a "doesn't work" issue.
(Old Spike)
lol He has already. But then it was in the simulation stage and the vacuum was held back by a paper thin sheeting, which was penetrated and destroyed by the rocket, an outright ridiculous design, which should be clear even to a layman.
Now I am just a humble engineer but I am really skeptical how they will get the "door system" to work:
The outer one has to open against 1 bar-ish of pressure (they said they want 0,01mbar inside, which is neglegible for this force calculation), which means, if the door would measure a metre by a metre (i.e. 1sqm) you would have 100kN-ish force to overcome to open it, this is 10 tons plus the weight of the door but again that would be negligible in the calculation.
Similarily for the door that slams shut, pushed by almost 1 bar of pressure (did they mention how much pressure they intend to lose during a launch?), let's say 0,8 bar remain so that would be 8 tons of a relatively heavy (say at least 300-400kg) door slamming shut on a probably very sensitive vacuum seal. And all this several times a day?
well yeah, probably not.
And what kind of sensitive satellite equipment is meant to withstand 10000g of force? I could see a military application, though.
And lastly, yes, the poster actually did forget to try to understand what vacuum "means", same as in his rather silly hyperloop defenses. I believe the vacuum they would need for either application is pretty much the same. And even if this would be out by an order of magnitude it would not matter.
(Site Moderator)
So it seem. It says "Busted" on the thumbnail so what more do we need?
(Old Spike)
Well, rather than being condescending now why not wait what becomes of it..... I see you did not address any of the technical arguments I made, but that is not important, now is it.
(Site Moderator)
Thats exactly what I'm doing, waiting what comes of it. I'm not an engineer so I don't know and can't really comment on it. My assumption is just that these are fairly smart people working on it and if they haven't overlooked something huge, they might have a shot. Theres a lot of unknows that they don't yet know, and most certainly Thunderfoot doesn't know. Thats kind of the point, to test and iterate to see if it will work. You were curious about the door but said you didn't even bother to watch the whole video, just skipped around. Would think this would interest a fellow engineer, especially if your critical of it working.
What Thunderfoot here is doing, is condescending. He can't utter a sentence with out sounding condescending. I'm not bothered if he is right (he is right about a lot of things as far as I know), but just can't stand his attitude. Simply put he sounds immature man motivated by the "I told you so" ego boost. I get it, that attracts a certain kind of audience and that's why he has a big following. I guess thats why the guy has such a huge hate boner towards Elon because he actually built a space company against all odds. Even the most optimistic guys wouldn't have thought it would materialize into something.
I have more respect towards Potholer, even though he does have some of the same traits, but at least he acts like a grown-up.
(Old Spike)
his point is the way something seems doesn't mean the way soemthing is.
as for the mylar film, that's their prototype. thunderfoot always makes that same logical fallacy, that a prototype must be identical to the end product. the prototype used a mylar film to hold the vaccuum, while they work on the airlock design that has multiple doors. it would only be ridiculous if it was their final design, which it isn't.
the door is carbon fiber composite, in the order of 10kg, not 300. there's a demo run of the actual door at 18:00. it already works against the atmospheric and vaccuum pressures they're going for, the last step is the timing.
the vaccuum is not "out by an order of magnitude", it's out by a billion orders of magnitude, which does matter. the difference between 1x10 -2 pa and 1x10 -11 pa is absolutely astronomical.
as for the sensitive equipment at high-G, they've already tested all kinds of equipment on it and it's fine. they even test a normal camera in the video at 39:30.
(Old Spike)
"the difference between 1x10 -2 pa and 1x10 -11 pa is absolutely astronomical."
Only in the pumping effort (which I did not refer to as the pressure problems are the same as with the hyperloop only on a smaller scale), not in the pressure difference to the outside world and thus the forces on the equipment. It is still give or take one bar, so the order of magnitude difference is negligible.
In the demo of the door I only saw it vibrating a lot when closing, I did not hear them mention the pressure they applied. I doubt they can manufacture the door weighing 10kg (but I am not a carbon fibre/composite expert), in any case this only matters when it slams shut and is negligible when the door opens.
I have seen the cameratest, I don't think it has any moving components in it.
(Old Spike)
Looks feasable. The doors on the vacuum retention mechanism seem like they would have high turn over however.